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24ppm NO3 and 3.9ppm PO4 / week?

Discussion in 'Estimative Index' started by Gilles, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Based on James Planted Tank site; he suggests:
    Based on the UKAPS site; they suggest:
    Calculated using Wet's calculator this equals:
    - 7.90ppm of Nitrate which is added 3x a week
    - 3.23ppm of Phosphate* which is added 3x a week
    - 3.32ppm of MgSO4 which is added 3x a week

    (*) James is referring to Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) on his site

    Now i know that EI is not about dosing 'how much' but more about keeping adequate levels, but the Potassium levels of the UKAPS calculator are way higher then James Planted Tank.

    Question 1) What is advisable to follow in this? E.g. what ratio between NO3/PO4?


    Also, UKAPS ads MgSO4 which i think is only needed when you have low KH/GH water, right?

    Question 2) What is the level you should add MgSO4 (e.g. which KH/GH levels in PPM)?


    Your thoughts on this please....
     
  2. dan_lup

    dan_lup Prolific Poster

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    hi. my suggestion for the best rate between NO3 and PO4 is 10:1, which represents the Redfield Ratio. this doesn't mean that you should try to reach to these values (10ppm NO3 and 1ppm PO4). depending on the mass of plants from your tank, also 20ppm NO3 and 2 ppm PO4 would be better for a larger number of plants.
     
  3. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    EI means dosing enough to prevent dificiencies, but some of these values are quite high. Not that it would cause a problem, but I don't really see the point of loading the watercolumn if there's no need to. 3x per week 3 ppm of KH2PO4 is overkill IME. I have a heavily planted tank, but it consumes no more than 2 ppm KH2PO4 per week.

    Of course consumption is also dependent of light. More light = more growth = more consumption of nutrients. Even so I have a hard time to believe that 9 ppm of KH2PO4 would be consumed on a weekly basis.

    EC would suffer a lot also.

    Ratios are of non importance. I couldn't even tell you the current ratio N:p in my tank. It's all over the place. I can see no difference in plant development or growth, or in the ratio aspect to algae.

    Since GH is a addition of Ca and Mg ions, one can't tell how much of each is present. A GH of 10 can be all Ca and almost no Mg. I've varied Mg between 2 and 15 ppm without noticing differences in plant growth. But because we can't determine how much Mg is actually present, it's better to dose it. IME 5 ppm is a good average.
     
  4. Yo-han

    Yo-han Guru Class Expert

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    About the need to add magnesium. Try the website of your water supply. For example, I live in Utrecht and the entire water quality test report is found online on vitens.nl. Ca 40ppm, Mg 4.6ppm so I add a little magnesium every wek after water changes. But with only knowing GH, you know nothing, you need to know at least Mg or Ca as well.
     
  5. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    If i look at Eindhoven, the Ca is on average 39mg/l and Mg is 5.2mg/l
    If i look at Welschap (Eindhoven Airport), the Ca is on average 32mg/l and Mg is 5.8mg/l

    But since i use RO water, i have to add Ca/Mg myself i think.
     
  6. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    tapwater in NL has enough Mg in general, but if you just use RO you have to add both. Positive Ca ions also relate to fish health (osmotic pressure)

    You could do a 50-50 tap/RO mix and save yourself the trouble of makong a lot of RO, getting rid of the things you then need to add again....
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    +1. Mg is very often overlooked.

    My tap water in Davis CA, had 52 ppm Mg++!!
     
  8. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Tom what is your opinion about the amounts of macro's in the first post?
     
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Seems fine to me, I do not worry much about ferts, I worry about CO2, filtration, water changes, trimming etc and adjust light to address that.
    Ferts are likely the farthest down on my list.
     
  10. BriDroid

    BriDroid Prolific Poster

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    I gradually moved my PO4 close to that. I was getting terrible green spot algae, so over the course of 3 weeks I added a little more each dose. I'm now close to 3ppm 3 times a week. GSA is gone and plants are doing great.
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Someone was mentioning they had terrible GSA due to the excess PO4 dosing from EI, then claimed they lowered it a great deal and GSA went away. I doubt many come to that conclusion, unless they lacked much skill when they were newbies, then switched later.
    EI will show your weaknesses for CO2/light balances, but that's it's main utility. Poor CO2 with good PO4 will still lead to GSA.
     
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