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20gl Long, Where do I go from here.

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by jrneuzil, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. jrneuzil

    jrneuzil Expired Subscriber

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    Ok. I am looking for input and help. I have a 20 gal Long with 65 Watts of 65K Power Compacts. I have a two bulb system so I do have another 65 watts available but don't run it because I thought that would be too much. CO2 from a 10 gal tank that goes off at night. My ph is at 6.6 to 6.8 with a KH of 22. Others suggest that something is buffering the water so I try and guess what my CO2 is at. Fish seem stressed and at the surface when I drive the PH to 6.4 so I try and keep it around 6.6 to 6.8.
    Tank has been set up for three weeks, heavy plant load. Mix of fast growers and a few slow.
    I am starting to see a medium amount of a brown to dark green hair algae and a small showing of blue green spots. I am also seeing some leaves with holes and dark black spots to partial covering.
    50% to 60% water change once a week with the following dosed from Greg Watson. Tomorow starts my second week of dosing.
    Plantex CSM+B 6ML every other day.
    KN03 1ml and KH2P04 .25ml on the other days in between.
    So, am I missing something ?

    Thanks for looking.
    JR
    :)
     
  2. Greg Watson

    Greg Watson Administrator
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    Re: 20gl Long, Where do I go from here.

    A little more detail about what you are dosing and the concentration of what you are dosing might prompt a few more replies ... for example, I don't *really* know what 1 ml of KNO3 really means in terms of how much potassium nitrate you are really adding ...

    I can make educated guesses on the Plantex CSM+B that you have a solution of 1 Tablespoon in 500 ml of water in which case your 6 ml would be really close to Tom's recommendation of 5 ml (5ml of commercial times 1.25 to reach the same concentration level = 6.25) ... so you are pretty close on traces, although I would personally err on the high side of 7 or 8 rather than on the low side ...

    So if you could help us out with a little more detail, especially on the KNO3 and KH2PO4 ... I'm sure it would help ...

    Greg
     
  3. jrneuzil

    jrneuzil Expired Subscriber

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    Re: 20gl Long, Where do I go from here.

    1 Tablespoon in 500 ml is how I am mixing the Plantex. Then 6ml of that every other day.

    As far as the KN03 and KH2P04 those are the amounts of dry powder added to the tank every other day.

    KN03 1/4 teaspoon(1ml) and KN03 1/16 teaspoon (.25ml) powder.
    I hope that is what you are asking. :D .

    JR
     
  4. Greg Watson

    Greg Watson Administrator
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    Re: 20gl Long, Where do I go from here.

    It is ... I think of "ml" as a liquid volume measurement, so I don't normally think of it in the context you are using ... but that's ok its' relatively accurate to use ml for dry volume as well ...

    1/4 teaspoon equal approximately 1.23 ml ...

    1/16 teaspoon equals approximately 0.30 ml ...

    So your numbers are about 20% lower than of Tom's recommendations ...

    Greg
     
  5. jrneuzil

    jrneuzil Expired Subscriber

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    Re: 20gl Long, Where do I go from here.

    So to start out, I should up the dose on everything just a bit ?

    JR
     
  6. jrneuzil

    jrneuzil Expired Subscriber

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    Re: 20gl Long, Where do I go from here.

    So is that it ? :rolleyes:
    Nobody has any help to add ?
    Should I up the doses a bit or am I missing something else ?

    JR
     
  7. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: 20gl Long, Where do I go from here.

    Hi jrneuzil,
    Perhaps one of the things you’re missing is a CO2 Table. You can find one here: http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/

    According to the equation that generates the data in the table your parameters of kH of 22 at 6.4 pH yields 263 mg/l of CO2 so it's hardly surprising that your fish seem under duress. Even at a pH of 6.8 that's over 104 mg/l which is 260% the recommended concentration. To resolve the stressed fish issue if you feel you need a pH of 6.4, you may want to investigate the source of the buffering. Is this tap water? Are you using unauthorized gravel, decorations or other paraphernalia? I suppose the most obvious question is; are you using a pH buffer?

    Reportedly, a good target pH is 6.9 which gives you a bit more "breathing" room but you might want to cut your tap with RO water if that option is available. With a lower kH you'll find it easier to drive the pH to your target value without having to pump such quantities of CO2 to drive your fish into Total Recall.

    Then there is the issue of your light. A popular belief is that with proper reflectors a PC unit will output 50% more usable light which, if true would mean that you are illuminating with the equivalent of perhaps 95 watts fluorescence, which would mean a theoretical 4.8 wpg. This much light and CO2 probably increase nutrient uptake rate and as Greg pointed out you were already 20% low on dosages. Therefore it would not be unreasonable to suspect nutrient deficiency.

    I'm unsure of the leaf holes though. Perhaps more data would help. Can't have enough data. Is the rim of the hole yellow/brown? Does the hole grow bigger, or does the leaf disintegrate? What type of plant actually has the holes, is it just one specie having holes or various? Is the leaf otherwise discolored apart from the spots of algae color? Do the holes appear on newer leaves or older? Upper leaves or lower leaves? Do the holes appear in the middle, edge or tip of the leaf?

    I'm guessing that a combination of:
    dosage increase (either frequency or concentration)
    adding RO/DI water if feasible to lower your kH
    reduction of photoperiod or reduction of wattage
    lowering CO2 to recommended levels

    would be a fair place to start. Let's not forget repeated physical removal of the visible algae as well. Then there is the hardest part - patience. Certainly don't want to be missing any of that! Three weeks is still early in tank development. There's more to learn and more to see.

    Cheers,
     
  8. jrneuzil

    jrneuzil Expired Subscriber

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    Re: 20gl Long, Where do I go from here.

    Thanks ceg4048
    I had been looking at the CO2 table but had gotten advice that suggested they would be inacurate for me because of some other buffers that might be found in the tap water. My KH at tap is 22. After reading your post I have allowed to PH to rise to 7.2 and will try it there for a bit.
    My dirt is Eco-complete.
    The wholes I am seeing start out with yellow edges and expand to brown. New leaves appear ok, so it seems to be older ones that turn.
    Thanks for you input. I did up the dosing and will sit back and see what happens.

    JR :D
     
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