180 gallon rimless Starfire wood scape thus far

Tom Barr

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You have one single pipe=> then it goes to a Tee, the two pipes now each go through a heater for one pipe(pipe A), and the other pipe has a CO2 diffuser(Pipe B).

The pipes A and B come back together in a Tee and back to the tank through a single pipe.

You can do the same for a pump and Ocean clear filters. See the outflow from the pump to a Tee, then one pipe goes to one OC filter, and the other to another OC filter. This is not as bad as running them in series as far as head pressures.

But you do not get complete filtration of each type, or if the above example with a heater and a CO2 diffuser, complete flow through with each pass.

So it's less efficient but you make up for it with a larger filter, larger CO2 diffuser, larger heater, and several passes through the system.

But you also gain higher flow rates and the mechanical filter clogs, it'll send it through the biofilter, so you'll just have a bit more muck/turbidity, not less flow/current, bio activity etc.

Not a bad trade off.

Here's the electrical version, just look at the diagrams, do not look at the rest, it may confuse you.

RLC circuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards,
tom barr
 

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helgymatt;23730 said:
Tom,
Your line diagram is not very clear. Something like this?
Picture6-1.jpg


Is there a way to run them parallel, but have 2 ouputs (one on each side of the tank? Or does this defeat the purpose of having them parallel?

Also, I'll be buying 1 more canister filter to acompany the xp3 I already have. If i do a parallel system, would there be any problems running an xp4 and xp3 together? I don't imagine there would be. Kensfish still has great deals on rena filters so I'm going to jump on that before they up their prices too (even though I won't be setting this up untill July or August)!

Maybe I should have started a new thread with my questions. I feel like I'm breaking in on your journal! But then again I think all this will help explain to others what YOU have done/or could have done:)

Yes, you got the concept well.

However, the line that is coming from the tank, must be larger than the Rena's intake, it has to handle 2X the flow, and alos the return line needs to be larger as well.

You can eliminate that by using 2 holes on each side, one for each set of Rena filters(best option).

Unless you have a specific reason to have only 2 holes in the tank, there's not real reason not to do it that way.

I have a larger pump to drive things, so my situation is different.
Also, my tanks are done, I have to work with the set up I have.

More holes are not bad, it gives you options later.
You can also add a plug and bypass it if you so chose later, but at least it's there.
It's another 50$ for the hole and 10$ for the bulk head etc though.
So another 120$ if you do not use it.

Your design minimizes the series issues somewhat, but you will gain more from using 4 holes, not just 2.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tom Barr

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Naman, this is very off topic for this thread.
So let's take it to another post and I'll copy and paste the answers there.

Thanks,

Tom Barr
 

helgymatt

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I didn't realize it costs that much to have holes drilled! $200 for 4 holes is almost more than the tank! Can I drill these holes myself, or is that asking for disaster? I'm not sure if the bottoms will be tempered or not.
 

naman

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Tom Barr;23738 said:
Naman, this is very off topic for this thread.
So let's take it to another post and I'll copy and paste the answers there.

Thanks,

Tom Barr

Absolutely. Move my/yours posts anywere you want, just let me know where it is. We did a little mess here :p

Would you say the bowing of the long walls of a tank when you fill it with water?
What is the thickness of the silicone?
I am also interested will you demonstrate your new Micro nutrient mix on this tank, and how you are going to limit plants growth with lights (less intesity or less lighting period?).

How do you think, can we use any canister filter to make filtration as you do? I mean possibly not every canister filter can withstand such high backpressure.
 

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naman;23748 said:
Would you say the bowing of the long walls of a tank when you fill it with water?
What is the thickness of the silicone?
I am also interested will you demonstrate your new Micro nutrient mix on this tank, and how you are going to limit plants growth with lights (less intesity or less lighting period?).

How do you think, can we use any canister filter to make filtration as you do? I mean possibly not every canister filter can withstand such high backpressure.

No, the tank's glass is 18mm thick, 3 mm more than ADA's.
It does not bow at all. The tank is overbuilt and will last forever.
The silicone is thick, but with the water inside, it not very noticeable.

The lighting will be about 10 hours for the PC lights(15" apart - a nice distance for 2 good angles for the light) 6700K.

The MH's can be driven at 2-3-4-5-6 hours. Depending on how much pruning I want to do and what growth rates I desire. I can also raise the fixture up or down to decrease or increase intensity.
So I have total flexibility for light.

The MH's bulbs are made by the same place that makes ADA's bulbs, they are the same color and spectrum output.

One the 4 and 2 ft tanks, I use a 5000 K bulb and 9325K GE with the ADA HQI 8000K. For the 3 ft long 96W PC bulbs, they have few options.

With the Ocean clear canisters, the Ehiem canisters I've found no issues with backpressure leaks at 10-12 ft of head pressure.

Here, I have only 3-4 ft.
Hardly any by comparison.

I'm not certain how the Rena filters will do there.
I'd imagine well enough though.

If not, then I can use the Ehiem's or Ocean clear.

I'm actually surprised more people have never seen or done this method with bulk heads for closed loop canisters, I hate return and outflow tubes on my aquariums.
You have to clean them, they get in the way, make cleaning glass harder, etc.

I'm not sure why ADA does not suggested it more, but many aquarists are not skilled or have common sense when it comes to bulk heads and leaking etc.

And they can sell those glass pipes that break very easily:) But they also sell a steel version of the return outflow pipes, but then you lose the clarity of the glass pipes.

So there's always a trade off.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

JDowns

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Tom a quick note on the Rena's from experience. If your running a booster pump on the backside of the Rena be very carefull not to clog the input. This will implode the canister housing very quickly with a powerful enough pump.

I have since changed to a Marineland 360 and am impressed in how it outperforms in gph to my old Rena XP4.

Oh well lessons learned.
 

Tom Barr

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The booster pump is not used pre filter, it's only a post filter direction and is directed one way, out to the tank.

The only fear is suction pressure.
But unless the filter is very clogged, not likely to do anything.

I do not do this in the Rena filters, only the OC which can handle much higher pressures.

Regards,

Tom Barr
 

naman

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Tom Barr;23753 said:
The MH's bulbs are made by the same place that makes ADA's bulbs, they are the same color and spectrum output.

What are those MH's ?

Tom Barr;23753 said:
I'm actually surprised more people have never seen or done this method with bulk heads for closed loop canisters, I hate return and outflow tubes on my aquariums.

I am greately interested in making planted tank with a sump, with what you call "method with bulk heads for closed loop canisters", drilling just two hoes, in the same corner. I am trying to invent overflow connected to internal tube to do not make internal overflow box as we usually do.
If you know how to do that or will invent it earlier than me, let us to know.

Here is George Farmer shows that Fluval canisters is proved for closed loop method.

naman
 

VaughnH

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George's set up looks a lot like Tom's in functionality. The heights of the filter outlet and inlet in the tank are just different.
 

Tom Barr

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naman;23765 said:
What are those MH's ?

I am greately interested in making planted tank with a sump, with what you call "method with bulk heads for closed loop canisters", drilling just two hoes, in the same corner. I am trying to invent overflow connected to internal tube to do not make internal overflow box as we usually do.
If you know how to do that or will invent it earlier than me, let us to know.

Here is George Farmer shows that Fluval canisters is proved for closed loop method.

naman

MH's = Metal halide HQI bulbs that ADA makes and sells.

You can make a simple over flow box inside the tank or have a removable overflow box. In order to have a sump, the water must over flow into the system.

You cannot take water from the bottom of the tank, only the top.

If you take water from the bottom of the tank, then you must have a closed sealed system all the way from intake to outflow.

This is what I have.

Open sumps do not have sealed system, they are gravity fed over flow systems.
So water must come from the top of the tank(and have either an over box inside the aquarium or a tubes and over flow box outside of the tank).

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/demo_install/overflow_box.jpg

http://www.melevsreef.com/plumbing/refugium.gif

Here's a built in overflow box:
http://www.midwestcustomaquariums.com/photos/401.jpg

Water going down the over flow into the bulk head

http://www.oneprogressbaratatime.com/uploaded_images/DSC_5461-758172.JPG

Regards,
tom Barr
 

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VaughnH;23774 said:
George's set up looks a lot like Tom's in functionality. The heights of the filter outlet and inlet in the tank are just different.

Yep, exact same type of thing.

I just have a heater and CO2 hooked up along that tuning path and have nicer intake and outflow pipes.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

helgymatt

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Ok Tom,
I'm back with more questions. I have decided I don't like the idea of buying two canister filters, and I am now leaning towards the Ocean Clears with a pump for my 75. I just think I can get better flow in this tank if I buy a large stand alone pump.

You had said two Ccean Clears would be overkill for a 75 gallon. Then should I assume that one ocean clear is enough? If I am to choose 1 Ocean Clear, what should it be? I think the Ocean Clear 340 or 354 are my options, right? The 354 has the poly beads and the 340 has a micron cartridge and polystand biocore. The backflusing option on the 354 seems attractive to me.

And so if I do one ocean clear, an inline CO2 reactor, an inline Heater, what size of pump do I need? Something rated for like 750?

Tom Barr;23123 said:
Drilled tanks is what I do for clients, they do not like crap hanging off the sides anymore than anyone else:)

I simply use a drill for glass, then add a bulk head, then plumb the filter.

Can I drill the holes myself on the bottom of tanks from glasscages? Would you recommend it? I'm just trying to keep my costs down as much as I can:D

Thanks again,
Matt
 

VaughnH

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In theory drilling glass is easy. But, in practice you really need to practice for a few trial holes to learn how to do it right. I haven't tried it myself, because I haven't wanted a hole yet. The day will come.....
 

helgymatt

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helgymatt;23890 said:
Ok Tom,
You had said two Ccean Clears would be overkill for a 75 gallon. Then should I assume that one ocean clear is enough? If I am to choose 1 Ocean Clear, what should it be? I think the Ocean Clear 340 or 354 are my options, right? The 354 has the poly beads and the 340 has a micron cartridge and polystand biocore. The backflusing option on the 354 seems attractive to me.

And so if I do one ocean clear, an inline CO2 reactor, an inline Heater, what size of pump do I need? Something rated for like 750?

Looking to buy a Iwaki pump today for my 75. I'm deciding between the Iwaki WMD-40RLT (822gph) or WMD-40RLXT (1200gph). The RLT models have less flow, but apparently are better for high-head situations so I was leaning towards the 40RLT. How much head am I talking in a 75 gallon with one or two ocean clears, an inline reactor, and heater?

What pump do you use in your 180? ?

Your suggestions are much appreciated.
 

Tom Barr

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HCin180.jpg


HC is actually in.
There's water in the tank.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tom Barr

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I have about 3-4 sq ft devoted to HC.
So after 2-3 weeks, I should be somewhat ready to fill.

The Dry start method is something I have not tested yet on a larger tank, but I see no reason it will not work at such a scale.

I figure I saved myself 10-12 water changes, algae, hours of planting, more hours replanting, 300-400$ worth of HC etc.

I'm implementing some of the ideas I've developed or had for some time, so I like going slow.

The 60 has fish and is up and running right now with 5 L lelupii.
the 38 Gal will be runnign this weekend perhaps, not sure if I am going to let the UG grow in via the Dry start method or not yet.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

jazzlvr123

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why not try the UG submersed, didn't you say it grows like a weed anyways. took over your hardscape etc....

if it grows anything like gibbia then I understand what your talking about.

I don't think HC will respond any differently to a large tank thank it would to a small tank, I think light is the main factor at play here and as you know your fixture is definitely adequate haha

and now that summers coming i bet it will grow even faster. I grew an HC carpet emmersed in a 10 gallon during the coldest past of winter awhile back and it grew about four times slower than the one I recently grew in the 25 tall CRS tank.

not really sure why plants grow slower in colder environments- but I'm sure you know why

oh and a little off topic question, do you think you will make it to my place for the may 6th meeting? i would love to pick your brain one last time before i leave for boston hehe