180 gallon rimless Starfire wood scape thus far

rusticitas

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Tom,

THANK YOU for posting those photos! A picture is worth a thousand words.

Now, why two Ocean Clear filters?

(We're going to keep pestering you until we get up to your level.) :)

-Jason
 

Tom Barr

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They(OC's) are run in parallel.

Redundancy.

One is mech, the other is Chem and Bio.

If the mech clogs(which they all do), the flow goes to the bio/chem and the pressure goes up, which I can measure and read with the gauges.

This design also places less resistance than running things in series.
Also, since I use 2 parallel lines, I can use both of them to make the heater loop and the CO2 loop.

Then they come back together and into the tank again.

You could drill another hole and have 2 independent lines, add 2 pumps etc.

But........I think adding another iwaki pump(or two smaller ones) is not worth the trade off at this size.

I have threaded 1" ball valves right below each bulk head here also, easy to remove, no issues with glue etc, then I have a true union after that, so I can remove any downstream items, also, threaded.
I can use softer reinforced tubing or flexible PVC tubing(Home Depot or Lowes has it), and some Christies blue PVC glue if I do glue anything.

Regards,
Tom Barr



Regards,
Tom Barr
 

RlxdN10sity

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Jan 28, 2007
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I notice the Purigen and Matrix carbon in the photos. I thought you said that the plants should be the filter and not carbon?
 

Tom Barr

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No,

I use carbon to get rid of tannins and/or organics, plants do not do that.
Purigen as well(less aggressive in most cases).

Zeolite I use often also as biomedia and to remove NH4 in the start up phases, after the 2-3 months, there's little need. But since those items are alos spent at that point, they make good biomedia from then on.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

RlxdN10sity

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So then you do recommend running carbon and purigen as well in an established tank?
I have Marineland White Diamond - Ammonia Neutralizing Crystals, is that Zeolite?
 

Tom Barr

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Rarely will I ever suggest using in an estbalished tank, not unless something large is pre planned and you need to have extra insurance to minimize NH4 from changing the sediment or something, or you have a very high fish load and are not willing to do a water change etc.

Some tanks have cloudiness issues that purigen can/has resolved etc.
Or tannins leaching for months.

Yes, that is zeolite, it is white to green in color, rinse first, then add in a bag to the filter compartments.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tom Barr

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Here's another view of the side:

180resized6.jpg


You can see the outflow on the back, a small black circle back there, this blast water the length of the tank, and the other nozzle comes out from the other side of the wood(not in view).

So you get two sweeping currents.

Here's the West African 60 Gallon:

Resized60cubewood2.jpg


I'll add white sand to this tank and cover the wood with Anubias, Bolbitus and java fern, some Riccia etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tony

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Jan 24, 2005
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Hi Tom,

I love the look of the set-up. It's going to have a very clean look about it without the usual equipment/wires hanging over the side of the tank.

I've always wanted to hide the equipment under the tank with out having a sump. I never thought about having an unbroken loop with a canister through pre drilled holes. What size holes/bulkheads do you have? Also the return nozzels that you use to direct the flow are they a particular make? Finally the intake for the filter looks like a shrimp death trap - is that the case?

Tony
 

VaughnH

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The filter inlet wouldn't be a shrimp death trap because shrimp would just establish a home in the canister filter. Many people find cherry shrimp living in their filter when they clean it.
 

Tom Barr

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No, it is a death trap if they get into the screen, they are met by a 900gph impeller:)

Then they see the canister filter.

It's fine though, I use a sponge prefilter on the screen.

Otherwise it clogs a lot.

I still clean the screen/sponge off once likely every 3-7 days.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tom Barr

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Finally got lights, very bright.

At the full HQI+ PC, we have 650 micromoles at the surface and about 150 at the gravel farthest away. With PC's alone: 180 to 40 micromoles(2w/gal for a 180 gal using 4x96w of 6700K).

This is ideal.
The max is about the same maxima as plants can use.
The lower range is still above the min levels.

This is at the prescribed height of 25cm from water's surface.
I can adjust that however, easily.

resizedlight1801.jpg


sodeviewlights1802.gif


resizedfront1804.gif


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So time to do the dry start HC........

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

khoile

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Mar 7, 2005
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Tom,

Could you elaborate further on plant maxium light consumption. If your light was translated to wpg it would be 4.6 wpg, and from what I've read so far isn't that too much light by MH/Large tank standard? Also what do you use to measure light amount? I wonder want how many micromoles is sunlight at noon, and would the amount decrease with water?

I'm getting a tank similar to your tank size (72x30x24). since the tank is a bit wider than the one you have, I will probaly have to hang the light at 12" instead of 9.8". I plan to only use 3x 150W MH pendants, would you say that is enough? Or should I get one of those MH/T5 combo? What wpg should I target for a 220 G tank?

Thanks.
 

Tom Barr

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I wrote at length about light and micromoles in the Barr Report light edition.

You may read the research, however, there's not much correlation between watt/gal and microlmoles.

So it's not something you can convert that easily.

I measure the light in the tank under real "field conditions".
This is far more useful than any equation, any suggesting to the w/gal rule or any conversion factors.

The rates and levels are found from research on aquatic plants.
Researchers obviously do not use W/gal.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tom Barr

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A good cheap(relatively) light meter is Apogee.
250-300$ for a water proof probe for in situ measurements.

Cannot beat that.

I have a LiCor bulb style integrating probe also, about 2000$, but I keep it at the lab and compare the Apogee with it.

Apogee Instruments: Products

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

JDowns

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Looking great Tom.

Just an idea though. Since you originally were going to put the tank against a wall (if I remember correctly?), couldn't you move your poles to the outside corners of the tank so you would have optimal viewing both from the front and back. Angling the poles in at a 45 deg. angle.

BTW I see where the best seat in the house is already positioned.
 

VaughnH

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When I think about how I would set up that tank one thing different stands out - I would try to support the light fixture from the wall, with an arm, as simple as possible, sticking out from the wall, with a rectangular cross section electric surface mount conduit from the floor up to the arm, to hold the electric wires, and with the fixture electric wire running across inside the arm to that conduit. That way there would be no apparatus behind the tank visible. The problem would be to have the arm strong enough not to deflect with the fixture weight, nor the stress from raising and lowering it. I have been designing it in my mind for some time now. (I'm not there yet!)
 

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JDowns;23541 said:
Looking great Tom.

Just an idea though. Since you originally were going to put the tank against a wall (if I remember correctly?), couldn't you move your poles to the outside corners of the tank so you would have optimal viewing both from the front and back. Angling the poles in at a 45 deg. angle.

BTW I see where the best seat in the house is already positioned.

I tried a number of options.
Nothing would adequately support the weight of this hood.
I could space the poles at either end more.
But there's less tension on the hood at these points.
It's built well and could handle it.

But I wanted to spread the weight out more, and not risk damage to the hood as much.

The tank is really not meant to be viewed from the back, although many will.
the pole will bother that view in the middle more, I do agree with you there.

I can easily adjust the poles to either end, about 2" from each end, I might get as close as 1". I need to look.

Thanks for the tip, I might do this.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

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VaughnH;23543 said:
When I think about how I would set up that tank one thing different stands out - I would try to support the light fixture from the wall, with an arm, as simple as possible, sticking out from the wall, with a rectangular cross section electric surface mount conduit from the floor up to the arm, to hold the electric wires, and with the fixture electric wire running across inside the arm to that conduit. That way there would be no apparatus behind the tank visible. The problem would be to have the arm strong enough not to deflect with the fixture weight, nor the stress from raising and lowering it. I have been designing it in my mind for some time now. (I'm not there yet!)

Yep, me too, but, reality............it comes in and kicks your butt when you start thinking about weight.

I wanted to do a single bar that was supported partially at one end from the ceiling. Then it came down on the corner and supported the other end like these do.

That way there's be no blocking.

But that dang gum ceiling and wall spackle in this 1940's house is a PITA.
It's frigging like drilling into rubber.

The land lady warned me about it as well.

I did not like the idea of having a large U shaped bar over this tank either.
This design has the most lighting options and I can move the light to the front or back easily, not a bad option with a heavy light:cool:

The bar strength is excellent the way it's set up.
I think the suggestion of moving them out to each end more might be wisest.
Since I cannot use the ceiling, that is really the only option.

I tied the wires(all 5 of them) with zip ties pretty good and ran them down the pole for all the tanks last night.

That and doing mountains of Homework right.
Sorry for not coming to the meeting, I am so busy getting things done here, it's kicking my butt.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

lulaface

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Jan 23, 2008
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This is probably the least technical question you'll get. I saw in an earlier post that you said it will have a glass top to keep the fish from jumping. How will that work with the wood being taller than the tank? Will you trim the wood or fit the glass around it somehow? I'm interested in different covering methods because I would love to have some emergent plants in my tank but I have both hatchetfish and an eel that I'm afraid would escape.