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120 Gal Dutchy Freestyle - Now with 50% more Dutch!

Discussion in 'Journals' started by burr740, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Thank you @burr740 for sharing your new tank's setup. Plants are really doing great. I noticed you lowered your Zn dosing from 0.075 ppm to 0.065 ppm... Any particular reason? Thanks ;)
     
  2. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    When I took the Purigen out and everything exploded with growth, the plan was to slowly cut a few things down. Zn was first because, on paper at least, it seemed like I was dosing an incredibly high level. But then a couple weeks later increasing KNO3 sparked another surge in the general well-being of everything so I scrapped the idea of cutting micros any further, at least for the time being.
     
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  3. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    So... Do you plan keeping Zn at that level or lowering it even further?
     
  4. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    No plans to lower it further. If the KNO3 thing had happened first I wouldnt have lowered it at all. That shined a whole new light on things - macros starting to run low with higher traces.

    If anything the next mix will have .075 again. That was working fine, probably not a big difference either way.
     
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  5. Vijay

    Vijay New Member

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    I tried going back a few pages, but could not find why you decided to remove Purigen. Could you provide some background on this? I run Purigen in my filter, but have read only good things about it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Oh right, I believe that discussion is a few pages back in the custom micro thread on TPT, maybe this one too but for sure the one over there.

    The short answer is everything was rolling along just fine for a couple of weeks with nothing changed as far as ferts or anything. I cleaned one of the canisters on the 120 and put in a new bag of Purigen like always (about 250 ml worth). Then a couple days later I noticed pantanal had gone pale with bright red centers, a clear sign that its unhappy. The mini limno and a couple other things were pale too.

    So after racking my brain over what might be wrong, because nothing had recently changed, I remembered cleaning the filter and the fresh bag of Purigen. After some internet research where folks seem to disagree on whether might affect various nutrients, I wound up taking it out of every single filter. All tanks had it.

    Over the next few days everything exploded with growth and color. It was a dramatic response, and the only thing that changed was adding new Purigen, then taking it out completely.

    So regardless of what Seachem or anyone else believes, Im convinced that it does have an affect on certain nutrient(s). Which ones specifically is anybody's guess.

    But other folks run it with no problems, I know Greggz uses a lot. So you'll just have to try going without it and see if makes any difference in your tanks
     
  7. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Great, thank you for clarifying.

    I don't want to say it too early, but it looks like increasing macros (Mg included) for my tank is giving better results as well. I'll post an update about my tank in the coming days.

    Do you dose any extra Mg? I know you posted your complete dosing, but I forgot about that... thanks :)
     
  8. Vijay

    Vijay New Member

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    Thanks for the response on my Purigen related question.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. zervan

    zervan Junior Poster

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    You are my inspiration! :) I saw Japonica shrimp on the Mermaid weed photo together with Red Cherry - they can live together without conflicts? And there are no toxicity issues with such high micro dosing? Are they also breeding?
     
  10. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    The tap has consistently shown about 4.5 ppm Mg and 35-40 ppm Ca. I used to add 5 ppm MgSO4 on water change days. Then I went to 4 ppm for probably a year, now Im doing 3. Not sure its needed but I do it anyway.

    Also add 10 ppm K2SO4

    Ive never added any Ca because what's there should be enough. But Im about to try maybe 5 ppm of CaCl just to see if anything appreciates it.

    Thanks. I dont know much about shrimp but Ive been told Amanos wont bother Neos. The 50 gal is mostly Fire reds, only a couple Amanos are in there. Ive never actually seen a problem, not that I necessarily would.

    The reds breed fine as long as I feed them well. Never seen a problem from ferts. Although I do run fairly low levels of Cu, maybe 10 ppb per week from dosing, and best guess is there's 5-10 ppb in the tap
     
  11. gsjmia

    gsjmia Lifetime Members
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    I am thinking about trying the black blasting sand you described, but it comes in several grits, I found this on Amazon and it is 30/60, fine grit, is this ok?

    https://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Blasting-Abrasive-Misc/dp/B0000AXAUQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517071654&sr=8-1&keywords=black+blasting+sand
     
  12. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, we will get back to "PO4 causes algae" again beefur too long.

    Looking at things again and in a different way is not a bad idea however. You learn more, get a better understanding and become more succinct. Others read it, and after 2-3 different cohorts agree over time, then they move on to the next myth or give up on those and focus on aquascaping and just taking good care of the weeds.

    Fear correlation, fear poor plant growth.

    Still Pikez, Burr et al, myself included, we all had to prove this to ourselves, not to me, or someone else.
    It can happen quick, or might take a decade.
     
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  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    But, my garage tanks do great also with minimal dosing, as does the non CO2 tank. So...........then you can try and do those methods as well.
    Low light, rich CO2, rich sediment(or no sediment or plain sand), ferns and grasses, nice hardscape...........easy also, few water changes.few ferts, nice fish load and consistent feeding.
     
  15. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Refrain from trimming the wallichii as long as you can, let it hit the surface for 1-2 weeks.
    Vari AR looks decent. Even without any traces etc, not much hope there, less, but still present, just part of how the submersed form grows I suspect,
     
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  16. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    I was comfortable believing that until Dennis Wong posted a pic of his on facebook, remember that? It was in one of the heated micro debate threads I believe.

    They were perfectly flat, and the leaves were huge. He had them up high in the tank under very high light, 250-300 PAR near the surface. In Aquasoil with his usual dosing - very high Fe/traces, high P, extremely low NO3 supplemented with heavy urea. Moderate KH with that limestone hardscape

    So I know that it's possible. His plants also demonstrate that the crinkling is not directly from high light or higher micros (assuming the right ones appropriate to the system are used) which doesnt mean either one wont make it worse in many cases

    Its a conundrum to say the least...
     
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  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    A good take home lesson in this recent thread part is that one single test, is rarely proof of cause.
    I do several just top check and be sure.

    I have to convince myself.

    Another good take home message is the start of any test should have good parameters to start with, and good healthy plants.
    If your plants are slightly stressed, have other potential issues, then adding treatment X, Y or Z will not likely give you the results you are after.
    Good methods and the logic behind them.......are key.

    And getting there is not particularly easy for most of us either.

    It can take me a few months to get a tank going well. But once there, even if I maul it............I know.........I can recover it nicely.
     
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  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    This is always a safe assumption if you know they have had it in those conditions over say 1-4 months or more.
    Could be those Rocks.

    I know I had a tank with a lot of them and the plants did really well.
    Never tried the Vari AR, but the light was not anywhere near the 100-200 range either.

    I can add more KH/GH though.
    I actually am planning on that for the garage tanks next.
    Rotala sunset mostly, but I'll include the Vari AR also.

    I better go work on my hardscape for the 70 Gallon.

    0.2ppm is plenty for Traces as CMS, I would say even less CMS+B fraction if you dope the Traces with DTPA Fe(say 50:50).
    Probably get away with the formula 1:1:1 for CMS+B, Fe DTPA, Fe Gluc

    None of the other trace metals really require the chelator other than Fe.
     
  19. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    This is always a safe assumption if you know they have had it in those conditions over say 1-4 months or more.
    Could be those Rocks.

    I know I had a tank with a lot of them and the plants did really well.
    Never tried the Vari AR, but the light was not anywhere near the 100-200 range either.

    I can add more KH/GH though.
    I actually am planning on that for the garage tanks next.
    Rotala sunset mostly, but I'll include the Vari AR also.

    I better go work on my hardscape for the 70 Gallon.

    0.2ppm is plenty for Traces as CMS, I would say even less CMS+B fraction if you dope the Traces with DTPA Fe(say 50:50).
    Probably get away with the formula 1:1:1 for CMS+B, Fe DTPA, Fe Gluc

    None of the other trace metals really require the chelator other than Fe.
     
  20. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Starting to have something that resembles a plan

    39373650544_7634c5f135_h.jpg


    Not thrilled with the Leopard val. It's just a big dark shadow unless you see whats on the surface

    39133131965_676f5fc59b_h.jpg


    I think a brighter plant would look better. May put the corkscrew there and a tall grassy something on the right

    The giant Barclaya longifolia red came from Vin's tank. Im babysitting it for a week or two then it's off to a new home. It's blooming!

    39372047694_0a8672da3f_h.jpg

    Left side is pretty well mapped out. Might do something else in place of Acmella, thinking Pogo erectus if I can get it to do right. Gonna try it again with the new dosing

    40052018402_4d5c78b5a2_h.jpg

    New AR growth is coming in decent. Had to yank a couple bad ones down front and put in fresh babies.

    40052030892_02c890d240_h.jpg


    Notice my secret weapon at the base of the Nuphar, a plastic zip-tie to hold the leaves more straight up.

    39373639464_404dde6bfd_h.jpg


    Fat little shrimp chillin in the 50

    39186044845_98fb612604_h.jpg
     
  21. SingAlongWithTsing

    SingAlongWithTsing Junior Poster

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    have you played around with the idea of just leaving that spot empty? or just using 1 or 2 more l. aromatica mini in place of the leopard val?

    what's the new micro looking like so far? i'm getting some NiSO4 in on monday/tuesday and wanted to give that a go
     
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