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120 Gal Dutchy Freestyle - Now with 50% more Dutch!

Discussion in 'Journals' started by burr740, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    Agree that it'd look contrived if the two rosettes (Lagenandra and Nuphar) are in the same line front to back.

    Nuphar'll look better behind Pantanal. That'll force you to trim the Pantanal more often. :)

    Then, the question is what are you going to put in the center...background? Something not so look-at-me that it once again divides the tank in two.
     
  2. NateB

    NateB New Member

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    nice tank! real good inspiration.
     
  3. SingAlongWithTsing

    SingAlongWithTsing Junior Poster

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    anu updates burr? ive been thinking of upping my micros too (currently using your 0.225 mix), my Barclaya and lagenandra meeboldii red are still developing holes
     
  4. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    You made it right? The holes stopped in mine when I increased B to around 30-40 ppb and Zn to 40-50 ppb.

    But some people like Greggz and Pikez are dosing less and not seeing any problems I think.

    Got a pic of the holes?
     
  5. SingAlongWithTsing

    SingAlongWithTsing Junior Poster

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    kh 11, gh 14, tap and tank
    idk if my water hardness has anything to do with it but i figured i mention it just in case.
     
  6. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Yeah I just saw the pics in your journal after posting.

    Those are similar to what I was seeing. You may need a lot more with such high KH and GH but Im really not sure. Dont think its K related though

    I'd try dosing every day, or most days and see what happens
     
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  7. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Gave the back tanks a big hack the other day. Here's some plant pics

    Rotala macranda variegated is growing alright. This all came from two stumps a couple months ago. It's sorta pouting I think, not as happy as it could be. See how the leaves are curled around the edges. But at least it's not stunted.

    38160408255_3f96e8284c_h.jpg

    25175481848_5ce20b0eee_h.jpg


    Rotala wallichii

    38160399835_f7ed223336_h.jpg
     
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  8. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Hygrophila sunset I got from @Greggz a couple weeks ago. Sorta just sat there for a few days but it's starting to grow now. Im hoping for a bit more color

    Top right is Rotala macranda caterpillar, pretty easy as far as macs go

    25175490108_5046cef009_h.jpg

    Clinopodium brownei I got from @Pikez . Nice plant so far, easy slow grower. Flowgrow site lists it as fast but that's not been the case so far

    (Vin check out the 53B in back, almost zero pinholes now)

    38160392495_2c1c1e6cf8_h.jpg
     
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  9. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Mermaid weed younglings, baby Limnophila belem to the left


    39010522962_e5bd515cc6_h.jpg

    AR mini variegated is slowly getting better with higher micro dosing. It went through a horrible few months when I first started the custom blend at really low levels. I'd love to use it in the 120 down in front where the Pogo kimberly is. It needs to get a little better first

    39010542292_5f0b904b0f_h.jpg


    39010569812_20518e0009_h.jpg
     
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  10. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    What if anything did you change? Or better yet, what do you think caused the positive results?

    Plants are looking good..
     
  11. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    That, along with a few other things changed with higher B and Zn. Its also when the AR varie started growing better.

    Currently @

    Fe DTPA - .25
    Mn - .08
    B - .035
    Zn - .05
    Mo - .0015
    Cu - .002

    3x week plus roughly half a dose on macro days

    I'd recently gone as high as 45/60 ppm B/Zn. Dropped it down a little to see if that's what's curling the macranda edges. Jury is still out on that

    You guys might notice Ive stopped gluconate...again, just this past week. Why? Because I made an interesting discovery, which I believe is Mn related, and wanted to go back to a more proven recipe for a couple of weeks.

    The same thing happened twice recently when Id increased Fe along with additional gluconate, and in the process raised Mn to keep the 2:1 ratio. First time was .15 ppm Mn, second time was .125.

    What happened both times within 2-3 doses the mini aromatica went pale white again, some other stuff lost color and also lost a few pantanal tops.

    Well...it wasnt due to lack of Fe because that was just increased. And since Mn and Fe compete, too much of one can cause a deficiency of the other, must be the Mn, right? Seems logical...

    Both times the symptoms reversed when Mn was reduced. But also lowered Fe again both times, so it could be a problem of too much Fe since too much looks similar to not enough...but I dont think so.

    Key word here is think. Nothing is being controlled or anywhere close to scientific. Where's the fun in that? I just raise or lower something and watch what happens, often more than one thing at a time, and go from there. So all this is mere speculative musing at best.

    But Im starting to think the 2:1 Fe:Mn ratio is overrated. It might be good if you're dosing really low levels, or growing soybeans, but it seems like much over .1 is counterproductive. Although I havent tried it with say .5 ppm Fe

    Fascinating, huh? :)
     
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  12. nicpapa

    nicpapa Guru Class Expert

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    Ι saw Rotala macranda do beter when not uproot..... i just trim it. i dint change anything in ferts months now...
     
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  13. nicpapa

    nicpapa Guru Class Expert

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    I saw only two shrimps?
     
  14. Greggz

    Greggz Lifetime Members
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    Burr this is very interesting. If you recall, I PM'd you about losing a few Pantanal tops. It was strange, as the Pantanal had been doing very well with the new micro dosing. And my Aromatica Mini tops also became strangely white/pale.

    So now that you mention this, I realize the only thing that changed was that I started adding gluc. I am going to stop dosing it and see how things develop.
     
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  15. SingAlongWithTsing

    SingAlongWithTsing Junior Poster

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    explains why i lost all but 1 aromantica mini stem lmao. I was at 0.075 gluc at the time, no other source of Fe.
     
  16. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Now that is interesting. I discounted gluconate as being the primary cause, because why would it be? Might be worth another experiment or two just adding gluc w/no extra Mn and see what happens.

    I wonder if since gluconate isnt really chelated is it reacting with high P levels into FePO4 or something else undesirable. My P stays somewhere in the 5-10 range and I know you run pretty high levels too. Back in the uber-low csmb days things did a lot better keeping P low as well. There was always a connection, saw it multiple times but I never figured out exactly what was happening. People with high cec subs dont seem to have this issue.

    A few weeks leading up top the contest I was dosing all gulc at .15, maybe .2 part of the time. Some plants thrived but a few others like mini limno and didiplis developed raging Fe deficiencies. I know gluconate alone will never cut it in my parameters
     
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  17. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    There's probably 30-40 fire red/sakuras in the 50, culls go in the 75. I should really do a better job feeding them so they breed more.

    Ive added maybe 6 really nice ones to the 120, one or two at a time. Was hoping to start a population but I never see them again. You'd think they'd be thriving with all that moss.

    Maybe the Amanos are eating them?

    25193570688_6c1394f089_h.jpg


    Spot the babies

    25193574368_9349749c5d_h.jpg

    25193565308_c2442f70eb_h.jpg
     
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  18. Greggz

    Greggz Lifetime Members
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    Now that I look back, it was after three doses of gluc that I lost the first Pantanal top. I came home and it was floating in the tank. I thought how strange is that, it is has never happened before.

    In examining the stem, it was kind of soft and rubbery right at the break. I had two more come off in the next couple of days, with the same exact rubbery stem at the same place. So something happened that affected them at the same time.

    Good news is I trimmed the rubbery part of the stem and replanted them, and there are already some new tops popping out. So hopefully I will save them.

    Now could be who knows what, but the only difference was the gluc. Macro dosing has been steady, micros had already been raised for two weeks......lights, CO2 all steady.

    And yes my P levels are high, along with every other level. New motto lately has been rather too much than too little. As I look back on my dosing spreadsheet over the last year, in my tank I run into far more problems with low dosing than high.
     
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  19. LRJ

    LRJ Subscriber

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    Funny how the low micros craze seems to be subsiding and coming back around toward the "lard it on" philosophy. This is basically exactly what Barr predicted would happen, lol.
     
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  20. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    There is a difference though. The low micro crazy was using commercially bought CSM+B. Most people here testing with higher micros are using Fe DTPA and the non-chelated forms of the other element that make up CSM+B. Essentially eliminating any of EDTA chelates from the mix.
     
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