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120 Gal Dutchy Freestyle - Now with 50% more Dutch!

Discussion in 'Journals' started by burr740, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    38360771991_2216c2c80a_b.jpg

    1: Myriophyllum guyana, 2: Acmella repens, 3: Isoetes lacustris, 4:Ludwigia sp. red, 5: Didiplis diandra, 6: Pogosteman helferi 'red', 7: Hydrothrix gardneri, 8: Penthorum sedoides, 9: Barclaya longifolia red, 10: Hygrophila siamesis 53b, 11: Bacopa colorata, 12: Oldenlandia salzmannii, 13: Limnophila aromatica mini, 14: Persicaria sao paulo.----- Wall plants: Christmas moss, Bucephalandra brownie sp, Hydrocotyle leucocephala. ------ Hardscape: Fissidens fox on Manzinita branches
     
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  2. geektom

    geektom Junior Poster

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    I know what you are saying about it being “cool” to the eye- at the same time, that is also what brings out your amazing purple-pinks.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  3. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Stunning indeed. And yes, I agree with the comment about replacing the red plant on the far right with a green one... but that's to be picky for me!

    On a side note, whenever you have extra Bacopa Colorata, please, PM me, willing to get it together with AR variegated ($$)!!!
     
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  4. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    Congrats, @burr740 !! An absolutely well-deserved win!

    I am stoked that #1 and #3 are USA entries!


    There is no other entry with as much attention to detail. Scott Miller's tank, I feel, should have been second, not third. His tank came close to yours in the amount of attention paid. He texted me this morning and said he was burnt out from getting that tank contest-ready. LOL! Don't blame him.

    People new to Dutch tanks do not realize how much time, effort, and thinking goes into a tank like yours. Fortunately for us, we had a front row seat to your final lap. Two months before the contest, your tank was good, but not great. But you're that guy in Olympics 10K who's mid-pack until the last lap and sprints to get the gold. That's exactly how I think your tank went - you got rid of some distracting species, you trimmed and moved stuff around for maximum contrast and height variation, the moss wall and pennywort ring added cred, and the health of the plants really got kicked into high gear. I could tell you had paid attention to the height and placement of every single stem in that tank. That is neither easy nor quick. You pulled a LOT of things together in the last month or two.

    The only complaint I had about your entry was that I had seen it before. :) And had you photographed it 4 or 5 days after your photo shoot, Marco would not have made that comment about the tank feeling empty. And therein lies the HARDEST part of these competitions - getting all plants simultaneously to the point of photo readiness is virtually impossible.
     
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  5. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    That last sentence I thought was funny - "please replace the sao paulo with a green plant" haha

    Yeah I shouldve done something different right there. At the time all I had was tall grassy stuff that was too similar to the Isoetes.

    Only have a like 5 AR var that Im trying to nurse back to health, so none of those to spare for a while. You can have some colorata anytime though, just let me know
     
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  6. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Thanks a lot Vin!

    Yeah that 3rd place tank is sweet. The last few days were taxing as hell for me too. Didnt realize how tedious it was going to be trying to put the finishing touches on everything.

    Funny story that Vin's already heard:

    The Hydrothrix in the center was plug and play at the last minute, literally put in a few hours before taking the pics. It was backup plan C if nothing else worked.

    They were all scattered about in the 75, something like a couple dozen and could really have used a few more.

    So anyway I had everything set for pictures, filter pipes out of the tank and all that. I spent the next probably 3 hours taking dozens and dozens of pictures, putting them on the PC from phone. Sorting through them all studying all the minor details until finally narrowing it down to 5.

    Whew! Glad that's done!

    About an hour later, Im in the backroom tidying up and I notice one big fat stem of hydrothrix that I overlooked, and boy it was a nice one! So I go look back at the 120 and....yep, I see the exact spot where it needs to go

    FFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

    There was no other option but to add it to the group and take a whole new round of pics.
     
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  7. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Of course, for the Variegated whenever you'll have some to spare... Coloradans, I am going to PM you. Thanks!
     
  8. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    Congrats Burr, 1st place is a well deserved honour.

    Interesting how we can always find flaws in our own work, which most others praise.

    I see they added some comments since we chatted on FB. Interesting to read the two judges prospective on the entries.

    Maybe its just me, but they seemed to have tighten up the category this year and are starting to look for more 'traditional' Dutch style. I only say this because of the amount of DQ'ed tanks this year. Looking back at years past, tanks that were DQ'ed this year seemed to have made it through in past years. Nothing wrong with this, but a little feed back on the DQ'ed tanks would really help these individual and future individual that plan to enter a tank in future years. I'm sure there are a few that enter the contest not to win, but for the feed back........

    EDIT: Looks like AGA decided to go back and give a little feed back on DQ'ed tanks. Good on them for doing this. I think it helps people understand and learn about dutch style and as I see it, will make the competition even better in the years to come.

    For someone that is still new to all this and is interested in submitting a tank next year, documenting your experience and the info you have provided is invaluable.

    Thanks again and congrats!
     
    #588 slipfinger, Nov 13, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  9. nicpapa

    nicpapa Guru Class Expert

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    Congratulation for the first place..
    Pikez for those liters tank is empty... :)
    It looks like a 100liter tank...
     
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  10. jbs47

    jbs47 Lifetime Members
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    Good work Burr...a really artful look. Love the hydrocotyle ring. A great touch.
     
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  11. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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  12. maciek_L

    maciek_L New Member

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    Very constructive review. As you were mentioned in the fb there is huge need to more explanation of dutch-style rules. It will be greate if e.g., Bart Laurens and other masters read for example good book about dutch style to give some fresh look on the old rules od dutch-style scaping.
     
  13. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Very constructive advice, real stuff to learn from! Thanks for sharing this Burr!
     
  14. Greggz

    Greggz Lifetime Members
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    Reading this it occurs to me that dutch scapes like this are one part plants, and two parts art & design.

    I have been considering trying a real dutch scape, but reading all this just now has my noggin all twisted up like a pretzel.

    Gotta go lay down with a cold compress.:D

    My hat's off to you guys who can pull this off!!!
     
    #594 Greggz, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  15. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    As I posted on FB. This is what makes this hobby so great! Individuals like Bart taking the time to give feed back and help other learn and grow in this hobby. The info given is probably just as valuable to me or anyone interested in dutch style as it is to @burr740.

    As a rookie in this hobby, I have yet to acquire a trained eye for the little details. My knowledge at this point has me focusing on colors and leaf texture, basically I try not to put similar plants beside each other. Simple as that. I could stare at burr's tank for hours and would never have noticed how very symmetrical the layout actually looked. Being able to notice these details is what will take someones tank from good to great. Bart's comments will definitely help me going forward and I can only hope I have a tank that looks half as good as his one day.

    Also Bart's website/page has a lot of great information.

    @burr790 I look forward to seeing how your tank evolves, thanks goes out to you as well for your knowledge and contributions in this hobby.
     
  16. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    Summarizing things for my own benefit here...
    1. He liked the positioning or leaf shape...of the Persicaria, Barclaya, and Isoetes. ??
    2. But the Isoetes needs to move to the blue X. I got that.
    3. The big red Xs. The one on the left over the Acmella. That's good due to visual pay off?
    4. The big red X that focuses the eye on the Bacopa Colorata - good because it directs the eyes to a proper pay off? Or do the big Xs reinforce symmetry? If so, I don't seem to be bothered by it.
    5. The two circles that look like Mickey Mouse ears to the top left and right of the Didiplis bush...empty space that needs filling or reinforces the geometric symmetry of Didiplis?
    6. Hydrothrix and Didiplis leaves too similar?
    7. The two triangular mounds in the front...good or reinforces the symmetry?
    8. If you'd put a curtain plant to the left of the Mini Myrio, this would have, I guess, been even more symmetrical.
    After Bart pointed it out, I went, 'Well, duh, of course!' but I would not have spotted most of this by myself. But I recall you and I discussing the centeredness of the Didiplis bush and if I recall you moved it to the left a bit so there was some space between it and the Hygro 53B.
     
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  17. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Here's the way I interpreted it:

    26701074579_655d19f2d1_z.jpg

    1/2. Yes
    3/4. I think the Xs are somewhat incidental and do not indicate anything themselves. It's more or less just the two planes of the triangles coming together. The significance of the triangles is to show how symmetrically similar both "halves" of the tank are. The combination of the groups involved both form triangles which originate from the same general area in each half, and flow in the same general direction.
    5. More symmetry imo. Two spots of the background exposed approximately equal in size and shape in both "halves" of the tank.
    6. Yes, that, plus both groups are sorta dividing the tank, compounded by the fact they are roughly in line with each other.
    7. Reinforces symmetry imo. Each half has a little triangle mound doing basically the same thing
    8. Not sure if I would say that or not. The vertical boundaries of the tank sides are gonna be there regardless. I dont think having curtain plants on both sides would change anything. Although obviously it would be best if they contrasted with each other to some degree.

    The symmetry thing never occurred to me either until I saw those red lines. Now it is painfully obvious. In fact, it looks so symmetrical to me now you'd think I had meticulously mapped it out that way. But it was entirely on accident.

    Probably because that's the only way I knew how to arrange the groups, and I just happened to do the same thing on both sides.
     
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  18. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    Thanks.

    Now you can see how a dominant street on one side of the tank addresses most of the symmetry issues...assuming there is no look-at-me plant in the center.
     
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  19. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

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    Just wanted to say Congratulations for 1st PLACE! THAT IS HUGE!!!!!
     
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  20. burr740

    burr740 ~~ Lover of Micros ~~
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    Was asked for a micro dosing update on TPT so here goes. I'll summarize as best that I can. Anyone who doesnt care about a long rambling fert post which may or may not make any sense...might as well skip on down to the pics. :)

    The last thing mentioned was the custom blend using .12 ppm dtpa + .08 gluc. That was maybe 6 weeks ago.

    The next thing I did was eliminate the gluc and go to .15 dtpa. After a couple of weeks, several things didnt like this at all. I suspect the gluc might have been doing more than I gave it credit for.

    The next thing I did was increase B a little bit (to 40 ppb) and increased Zn a lot (60 ppb)

    The logic for doing this was because a few species were showing specific problems in the second or third set of leaves. Mostly small holes. Not K deficiency looking holes. Holes like snails make. It probably is the snails, but they wouldnt be causing damage if the leaf wasnt already in a weakened state.

    So from internet research the most likely suspect seems to be Zn, or possibly B. I think Zn specifically because depending on where you look, it's listed as a "somewhat mobile" nutrient, or having a limited mobility.

    My thinking is this might explain the issues with the second or third set of leaves. The plant can get more Zn from those leaves, but not from the ones on down like a truly mobile nutrient.

    Speculation obviously.

    Another thing I noticed about Zn is that Flourish Trace has an incredible amount of it. Dosed at .07 ppm Mn, it has like .169 ppm Zn. Which sounds crazy to me but there it is.

    Well, since the custom blend uses all the same compounds as Flourish Trace and Comp, and I assume there must be a reason, it seemed logical that I might need to jack up the Zn.

    So during the second week of the .15 dtpa blend, which originally had 27 ppb Zn, I made a separate solution of 30 ppb to add along with it - 57 ppb Zn per dose.

    Only two things happened that I noticed. Ludwigia sp red got bigger. And AR mini variegated started putting out nice flat growth for the first time in months. Ive had 5 or 6 small ones just basically sitting there with twisted up leaves, not doing anything really. But in just a day or two they started putting out new growth all of a sudden.

    That was two weeks ago. Some things had lost a little color since going down to .15 ppm Fe per dose. Not really deficient but I could tell they would like a bit more.

    So the last two weeks have been .225 ppm dtpa, 3x per week, with B and Zn still at 40 and 60 ppb. Nearly everything seems to like it.

    Here's some pics:

    Pantanal in the 120. Most went to hell recently. The three tall ones are the only replanted tops that survived. The rest shriveled up and were cut down to stumps. The stumps are putting out nice new ones but this always happens so who knows

    38455968606_3f02e69213_h.jpg
     
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