1.5" Siphon Tube - Closed Loop Filtration System

[Chilly]

I've been planning my filtration system for my 120g planted tank for some time and was looking for some feedback. I'm curious because this is going to be a bit different from most closed loop setups. Mainly because I'll have a 1.5" siphon tube going over the edge and secondly because it will be siphoning down through the floor below the aquarium. The total height will be about 8 feet max since the platform that everything rests on will be raised in the basement. Why siphon tube you may wonder......well because I like the simplicity and I'm not overly concerned with fact that it might be an eye sore. I currenty have two Eheim filters running in my 60g each with their own siphon tube and spray bar and I don't really mind. I also have the Co2 inside the aquarium along with a heater so this new setup will be much more clean looking. The 1.5" siphon tube runs into a 1.5" manifold with two port coming off it. The first will feed a Mag Drive 3 needle wheel pump and the second will feed the main pump, 900gph unit. The main pump output feeds two pvc runs, the first has two Nu-Clear filters (100 micron mechanical and bio ball) and the second port has another Nu-Clear filter (25 micron), UV and heater. All this feeds back to a 1" return the again goes up and over the rim to 3-4 loc-line outlets. I know the 900gph pump ends up pumping about 525gph plus maybe about another 200-250gph (estimate) coming from the mag drive 3 for Co2. I will have a MP40 in the tank for added flow.

My rationale for going this route.....simple, safe (leaks are isolated to basement), quiet, and lastly I can have it plumbed into my house plumbing so water changes will be a snap.

I'm just wondering if I have overlooked anything and any positive feedback will just make me feel better about moving forward with the project.

Roland

 

[Gerryd]

Hi Roland (of Gilead?),

That is a lot of filtration and flow for a 125 gallon! Are you sure you need quite that much? I ask as I have a 180 and now a 220..

Thoughts on your idea:

1. What model is the main sump pump?

Regardless, you need to pump water through multiple canisters which is harder as they get dirty and clog, and then back up 8' to the tank! I don't think a 900 gph pump can do that even if it is very high pressure or flow...

2. Will the NC lines be in series or parallel?

I think your 1.5 main intake will supply the inlet flow you need/want, but unsure if your outlet flow is optimally setup or if the pump is sufficient.

I use a blackfin 3600 with 2" inlet/outlet to run 3 parallel lines: 1 NC 533, 1 NC 540 (BIO), and extra lines to the tank. I used 4x1" intakes to feed the pump

So, to ensure you have adequate OUTFLOW, you need to have sufficient INFLOW. You may want to increase the main intake siphon to 2". You can feed 2x1" intakes to the main 2" pipe via a wye if you want, as a 2" intake in the tank would be huge

3. How will you hard plumb to the house? Can you turn a few valves to easily drain and refill the tank? That would be optimal if possible....

Plenty more to talk about here..Interesting application.

What fish and plant goals do you have?

P.S. Sorry about the Gilead reference. Is from Stephen Kings 'The Dark Tower'..

 

[Chilly]

Hi Gerry,

The reference "Gilead" went over my head ...I'll have to google it later but . I really appreciate you responding because I've read alot of your posts and respect your opinion. To respond to some of your comments above....

1. The pump is a reef octopus 3000 with 900gph and 8.8 feet head pressure.

2. The two mechanical filters are in parallel with the bio ball filter in series with/after the 100 micron Nu-clear. I had prototyped this setup/configuration already in the basement, setup directly below the tank (spaghetti junction). I measured the actual flow and it was 525gph. Moving the filters (closed loop) ~3 feet lower increases the internal pressure of the system but should not burden the pump further since it is still a closed loop. I too was very concerned about the 1.5" diameter flow potential, but with 8 feet of head the flow potential is huge. This link has a calculator that I found very useful http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx. With 8 feet the potential is over 7000gph. My logic tells me (I'm not the sharpest pencil in the drawer) if the pump was able to move that water, the siphon has the "potential" to supply it. However I know I won't move that water so the rest of the left over pressure will help over come the head going back up "closed loop" My prototype test did show me that this configuration did produce 5 feet of head given all the filters and 90's etc and correlated well with the flow curve given by the manufacture of the pump. I have designed the PVC to easily accept another pump if this one doesn't hold up to my expectations. I think the key here is the 8 foot drop through the 1.5" siphon. The 1" return is a little on the small side and I may end up getting robbed a little due to increased head pressure but again I've referenced some charts. 900gph through 100 feet of 1" pvc will cost 12.7 feet of head pressure. I wont get 900gph but if I did, moving 900gph through ~8 feet will cost me 100/8*12.7=1.08 feet of head and at 600 gph the cost is only 0.48 feet of head. (i'm a mechanical engineer by day). So, I figure my 525 gph could drop to 425 gph...maybe? I say this because my prototype did not include the mag drive three flow.

3. I will hard pump to the house via 5/8" clearbraid reinforced pvc tubing. I dont think its actually PVC but thats what it says.....anyhoo, I'll have it go through a manifold to mix hot and cold up to the filters and the same manifold can direct the used water back down to the sink. I've always been very bad at keeping up with water changes so I hope to change that. The details are a little complicated but its actually pretty cool knowing that I could potential do a water change and not even get my hands wet

Fish and plants....yes, good question. The fish I have now in my 60g planted mostly anubias and crypts are 3 bala sharks and 10 platium angels and 5 bristle nose plecos. Not really ideal for what I'm going for. I'm tempted to find them new homes....especially the bala although I do love them. I'm attempting a dry start in the 120 now and have HC and Helfri growing with limited success....long story. I have a ton of ADA Amazionia in there with some Seiryu to create the scape. I'm wanna go with stems like limnophila aromatica, rotala and maybe even some staurogyne to mix up the forground a little. and again the plants that I currently have may not work with this mix so I may need to find them homes too.

ok....I think I got it all covered....and thanks again for the feedback....I may reconsider the single 1" return but 600gph total filter flow and a MP40 maybe should provide lots of flexibility.

 

[Chilly]

Finally....up and running

Just to follow up with my plumbing thread, I have a few pictures of the set up as it stands today. It work pretty good but I'm not completely happy with the level of noise coming from the pumps. Its been running for about a week now and I've executed about 4-5 water changes of about 50-60%. I've been measuring the ammonia daily and its been ranging around 1 to 4 ppm. Usually 1ppm after a water change and 4ppm is the highest it got during a 1-2 day period. I have a few plants at the moment and more coming in a few day.

The system in general, still requires some finessing but here are some pictures.

1.5" Siphon Tube and 1.0" Return

Below Tank Shut Offs

Basement Filter System

The main filter system is directly below the floor underneath the aquarium in a little alcove beneath/beside the stairs. The closed loop consists of 3 Nuclear canisters, mech, bio, and chemical. There is also a UV filter and heater, these and the canisters all run off a 800gph pump. The mech and bio are in series and the UV, heater and chem are in series too on another path.

Off the main siphon is another loop driven by a Mag3 with needle wheel pumping CO2 into the return.

I'm gonna redo parts of the system, probably changing out the pump for a new "Blow Hole" Reeflo pump and removing the Mag3 and replacing the CO2 delivery to a micro bubble diffuser from PointFour.Com (MBD-075).

I also have the entire system plumbed to the house so water changes are very easy. More pictures to come.

All this in the quest for a very quite and easy system.

All in all, I was very pleased with the performance of the system as its stands.

Chilly

 

[Chilly]

Tank Details

I wanted to explain some of the items visible in the aquarium. The probe hanging up front is there only to verify the readings I'm getting from a probe which is located in a probe holder mounted in the PVC down below in the basement. On the left you can see the 1.5" siphon tube with the 1.0" return branching off into 3 loc lines. On the right there is a thermometer bobbing around which will be replaced with an inline gauge, also there is an MP40 and a magnetic glass clearer. The MP40 will likely be re located after I get a sense of the flow. As you can see the Mag3 does a pretty good job of putting out a lot of CO2. Besides that there are some reflections which make it look as though there is something else....I've got to improve my photo techniques.

Chilly

 

[Chilly]

Below Tank Shut Off Details

I added a auxilary drain off the 1.0" return. This drain has a hole in the floor directly beneath it which is not visible. The plan was to allow for another point to fill from using the house plumbing but I'm not sure it was really neccesary. I really like the fact the filter system is below the floor....it gives me so much room for all those aquarium things

 

[Chilly]

Closed Loop Details

In my original post I stated the pump has 900gph....not so. It is actually rate for 800gph and the system produces about 2.5 feet of head. The gauge on the Nuclear read 4.5psi....1psi from the filters, 90's, etc. and 3.5psi from the 8 feet of head (lowest point of the filter system below the aquarium). One thing I want to improve apon is the location of the pumps. Right now they are on the far right, parallel to the 1.5" siphon 90's which does cause them to not get primed quickly. I have to jiggle them a bit sometimes after a water change. This can be fixed easily and will happen once I redo a few things. As you can see I've used unions everywhere so I can rearrange things if needed.....and they do. There is a 5/8" poly hose that I can connect to any of the canisters from which I drain and fill from. The 5/8" poly runs over to my laundry room where it is tapped into hot and cold with a bypass to the laundry room sink. With the two pumps I'm getting about 600gph. I also have ball valves at the start and finish of each run so I can isolate each one individually for maintenance. There is also another drain point just before the main pump.....again, I haven't had much use for it but maybe in the future. In an effort to make the pumps more quiet, reduce the vibration, I actually have a Air Nike supporting the pump....worked pretty good....lol As you can see there is room for refinement but I think it'll suffice for now while modifications can be made on the fly. These things take time and lots and lots of planning.

Chilly

 

[Jim Miller]

The hydor appears to be lying on its side. That's a no-no!

90s create a lot of equivalent head. If you're redoing stuff try to replace them with two 45s instead or better yet spaflex. FlexPVC.com has sweep 90s down to 1" but they're expensive.

Plumbing takes a lot of time. I still have a list of things I want to change when I get a RoundTuit.

Jim

 

[Chilly]

The hydor appears to be lying on its side. That's a no-no!

90s create a lot of equivalent head. If you're redoing stuff try to replace them with two 45s instead or better yet spaflex. FlexPVC.com has sweep 90s down to 1" but they're expensive.

Plumbing takes a lot of time. I still have a list of things I want to change when I get a RoundTuit.

Jim

Thanks for the heads up on the Hydor......running downstair to fix that ASAP!!!