Downoi - defeating my nemesis?

Gerryd

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Sep 23, 2007
5,623
22
38
South Florida
Hi all,

As some of you may know I have tried multiple times to grow/maintain pogostemon helferi in my 220 with no success..Started many times with great mother crowns/stock from multiple sources and they would just melt away and shrink to nothing over time.

I had always suspected poor c02 and flow along with my brown thumb.....

Recently I had some success in the 220 with this species using better/stornger current and overall better c02/02/growth over the last 6 months in general since the swap to the wet/dry. So, I could grow it but still not as nice as others..or the imported stock.

Approx 2 months ago (Jan/3) I took a few runts I had and a few mothers from gsjmia and placed them in direct current/c02 from the filter outlet in my 57 gal. Since that time it has done well (by my previous standards LOL) and is has increased quite alot. The flow overall in this tank is better and it is much smaller as well in total area.

Yesterday I was able to split the single patch (now much larger) into two other sections equally as large! One I moved to the other side of the 57 to see if I can grow more and another section I am trying in a new spot in the 220. I pointed an outlet right at it so we shall see.

That said the growth could be larger but in the 57 is only getting 50 mmoles tops but you can see better current/flow against the leaves. I know Tom, HJ, and others use more light than that....

So, it has taken a bit to grow it well, but it is doing quite well (even objectively I think) overall and am quite pleased with my progress.

I have not used any gh booster or anything to change how I maintain the 220 or the 57. I think most if it is just better direct flow and 'better' c02 due to a smaller tank, less off gassing/surface area. Plus I use the same size nw pump on both tanks, so the 57 is overpowered and may have better c02. C02 on/off iight timings/duration/par is about equal in both tanks. Just the ATI in the 220...

Pics later. I forgot to get a before pic but you will see the 3 sections and know that the 2 new ones are from the original single one.

I am happiest that even though I was very frustrated and gave up on it several times, I persevered and can now claim some success as I hope you will see.

Nothing wrong with the water here at least.

That said, gh booster or other water quality improvements could certainly improve size but I would be happy if they stayed like this. They grow multiple daughters, get thick, stay nice and green, no loss of leaves, etc. You will see I hope.

Thanks for listening....

Here is a quote from Greg on Jan 3 after he brought over his cuttings...

Since you grow so many other plants successfully, I have no doubt you will defeat your nemesis.

I wasn't so sure but feel more confident now... Pics later when lights are on and plants are more 'awake'.

Plus is beautiful out and I see a 20 mile bike ride to the beach and back...then shoot some hoops later maybe.

Take care!!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tom Barr

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 23, 2005
18,699
786
113
It's a good indicator plant IME.

CO2/flow etc.

It grows fairly well and is easy to reproduce once you figure that part out.
Likely has a higher CO2 demand than most other plants.
 

samh

Guru Class Expert
Nov 16, 2010
193
0
16
SE QLD Australia
Hi Gerryd

The flow in your 220gal without it pointing directly at your downoi, did your plants move? I've experimented with flow myself and it takes me a while to get a good mix. Some plants would have a gentle leaf movement, some plant stems would sway in strong current and others wouldn't move. I've noticed some people don't have any plant movement. How strong is your outlet over the downoi I'm just curious to gauge a visual?
 

Gerryd

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Sep 23, 2007
5,623
22
38
South Florida
samh;95085 said:
Hi Gerryd

The flow in your 220gal without it pointing directly at your downoi, did your plants move? I've experimented with flow myself and it takes me a while to get a good mix. Some plants would have a gentle leaf movement, some plant stems would sway in strong current and others wouldn't move. I've noticed some people don't have any plant movement. How strong is your outlet over the downoi I'm just curious to gauge a visual?

Hi samh,

IME so far, the best growth I got in the 220 was in the path of the mp40 and the leaves shook. Remember downoi has stiff leaves unlike say, Blyxa.

In the 57 the current hits it directly and all the leaves move visibly. The plant stem does not but there is clearly flow reaching all leaves. I will get a vid up later to show you.

It for sure likes flow and it does need c02 to be on target...
 

Gerryd

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Sep 23, 2007
5,623
22
38
South Florida
Tom Barr;95081 said:
It's a good indicator plant IME.

CO2/flow etc.

It grows fairly well and is easy to reproduce once you figure that part out.
Likely has a higher CO2 demand than most other plants.

Yep, I agree. It was indicating to me that things were not quite right. They like flow IME for sure and they do need c02 to be right on....It does grow easily and reproduce nicely once it does grow :)
 

samh

Guru Class Expert
Nov 16, 2010
193
0
16
SE QLD Australia
Thanks it must be still high flow but low pressure hence the mp40. I was putting all my single filter outlets straight from elbows, onto the plants and they would bend over and leaves would flap around. Low pressure would explain why when people have high flow and pressure not aimed at the plant they still get good results maybe due to low pressure.

Is your flow now over the downoi from a filter outlet with co2 or the wave maker?
 

gsjmia

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Jan 10, 2010
329
19
18
Boca Raton, FL
When I was having the same shrinking Downoi problems as Gerryd, I also thought it was flow. So I took the best healthy plant and made a flower pot out of a plastic water bottle, filled it with substrate (little osmocote in bottom), planted the Downoi in it and hung it right in the direct flow of the co2 outlet--it didn't make any difference, it grew (shrunk) just like the others.

I read in Tropica that Downoi like a GH of 10 degrees, so I raised mine and they started to grow nicely. But, as I recall I also had a persistent surface scum problem at the same time. I learned how to adjust my overflow prefilter sponges to get rid of the scum at about the same time.

Since Gerryd and I live in the same water company, the GH must not be as important as I thought it was.

Like Tom said, Downoi is a good indicator plant, its a canary in the aquatic coal mine.
 

jerrybforl

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Mar 7, 2010
1,034
3
38
43
Miami Beach, FL.
I ordered six crowns that I should get Monday or Tuesday. Now I have better lighting and good CO2.

I hope to have success with this plant finally! I will post pics when I get them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 

Tom Barr

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 23, 2005
18,699
786
113
My GH is quite low, 2-3 degrees, Downoi grows very very well for me, I just sent 10 off for sale.

For me, it does seem to do best in the corner opposite and in the flow path of the return filter.
So the water flows 5 ft or so before hitting the plants. Healthy Downoi is more noticeable than many other plants also. I tend to think it's mostly a CO2 issue though if it's doing poor.
If I packed a row between 2 taller stems plants, then they get crowded and flow restricted, less light etc etc, many things are going on, not just current issues.
They did not do as well there.

Same for the UG.

UG lays flat and nicer in the downswelling currents IME.

That plant is another level above Downoi.

Many some funny Rotalas, and others might be the last stages.
 

dutchy

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Jul 6, 2009
2,280
5
36
63
The Netherlands
I also tried to grow Downoi in GH's around 3-4, but it grows better in GH's around 7 to 8. They simply get bigger.

Concerning flow/CO2: Lately I decreased flow/ripple to simplify the CO2 system and to see if I can get rid of BBA this way. Less flow/ripple means less CO2 loss, and the tank is now running on one AM1000 only The total flow in the tank is now only 500 gph, was 1000gph. The result is the downoi even grows bigger than before. Also no BBA has come up since I did this.

This seems to contradict most claims about flow.

Maybe Gerry could try more GH booster.
 
Last edited by a moderator: