longstanding algae problem

ir0n_ma1den

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Update:

Specs:
  • 65w 6700k PC lighting (10 hour photoperiod
  • eco-complete
  • maxijet 400
  • pressurized CO2
  • Eheim 2115
  • Rena XP1 w/o spray bar

25% water change once a week

Dosing three times a week:
• KNO3 1/4 teaspoon
• KH2PO4 1/32 teaspoon
• K2SO4 1/32 teaspoon
• MgSO4 1/4 teaspoon

Alternate three days:
• CSM+B 1/4 teaspoon

DSC05053.jpg


DSC05057.jpg


DSC05059.jpg


DSC05061.jpg





The battle with GSA, Hair Algae, GDA, and the mysterious browish/red algae has improved, but it hasn't ended. I am still getting new growth in the GSA and GDA departments. Hair algae has seemed to stop but that is not a fact. The brownish red algae has also seemed to stop.

I have noticed that my hair algae problem only appeared in the very front portion of my tank which is weird cause that is where it is the highest flow. Then again when I dose, most of the nutrients sink to the front so that may be the cause.

plant growth has been quite slow, especially with my L. aromatica, which has seemed to melt a little. The problem is that that is my only stem plant, and because of the 3 day blackout, I only have about 7 weak stems when I used to have the back crammed full of thick, red stems.

The tips on my NL java fern have turned opaque and weak looking. New growth is not substantial at all.

I have propagated the glosso, but the plantlets still grow vertically and not horizontally.

My crypts (that I really don't want) are doing okay, but some leaves, even new leaves, have developed holes in them and withering away.

A good portion of the peacock moss has been doing very well, while the other half isn't looking so good. It seems to have this light brown fuzz on it. It might be another type of algae that was introduced from where I bought the stuff. I think it may be BBA, but I am not sure.

I'm really tempted to switch back to my 130w just so I can get some good growth in my L. Aromatica, I really don't want that to die. I am willing to do anything to rid this tank of its problems because it gets a little frustrating when your tank doesn't do what you want it to do, right?
 

Biollante

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Hi,

I don’t mean to be trite, but the dosing is based on a minimum 50% water change each week. Fifty percent is a sort of minimum to ‘reset’ the system. Especially when I am having problems, I often change 70 or 80% and maybe another 50% a couple of days later.

The lighting really is up to you, 130 watts can be done. You will need to raise CO2 and nutrients correspondingly and allow the plants time to adapt. However, until you get the underlying problems resolved, doubling the light is likely seriously to increase the difficulty in dealing with the underlying, principally CO2 problem.

Biollante
 

ir0n_ma1den

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Biollante;42839 said:
Hi,

I don’t mean to be trite, but the dosing is based on a minimum 50% water change each week. Fifty percent is a sort of minimum to ‘reset’ the system. Especially when I am having problems, I often change 70 or 80% and maybe another 50% a couple of days later.

The lighting really is up to you, 130 watts can be done. You will need to raise CO2 and nutrients correspondingly and allow the plants time to adapt. However, until you get the underlying problems resolved, doubling the light is likely seriously to increase the difficulty in dealing with the underlying, principally CO2 problem.

Biollante

And to think I was about to cut off water changes for a month to see the results :) glad you stepped in.

After all the advice put in by you and and the other users in this thread, I'm not about to undermine everyone and go back to 130w till I get everything under control.
 

Biollante

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CO2 Yada Yada Yada

ir0n_ma1den;42841 said:
And to think I was about to cut off water changes for a month to see the results :) glad you stepped in.

After all the advice put in by you and and the other users in this thread, I'm not about to undermine everyone and go back to 130w till I get everything under control.

Hi,

Glad to hear it!

Really it is CO2, circulation and just patience. :rolleyes:

The light thing really comes down to aesthetics, there are not many plants you cannot grow on the light you have. :D

Have fun, after all it is a hobby, not, well, golf. :(

Biollante
 

Philosophos

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I really don't think upping the light will help your situation much. Lower light is far easier to handle. I run the same wattage of CF over pretty much the same volume but as a bowfront, and I'm not having issues growing what I want.

It looks like you aren't getting the CO2 into the tank very low down, or in the front. This is where your algae issues are. I try to get my CO2 as low in the tank as possible, with a current running across or opposite of the direction of the lower areas. CO2 goes up, so putting it lower means more dwell time and more even saturation throughout the column. Aiming it into the densest areas of plants, or deflecting it into those areas makes a difference.

-Philosophos
 

ir0n_ma1den

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This was posted on APC in my thread, which is the same as this one here:

Maiden,

I'm sorry to hear about the problems with algae and growth. I think you'll need to bump up the WPG for the glosso to do what you want (and the Limno as well). If you up the lighting, cut back to 8 hrs (or even 6 to start) and slowly work your way back up by 30 minutes per week.

Your scape looks really good otherwise. Keep up the good work.

-Dave



I trust the people of the barrreport more than I do anywhere else when it comes to the mechanics of a planted tank. Is the above statement wrong, and if so, why?



Also,

previously I had been diffusing my CO2 via the eheim 2115 w/ filter media and spray bar. It did an okay job, but dispersed CO2 at intervals because the CO2 would collect somewhere inside and spew out when the collection bubble got too large. I don't think that the method was too effective because I was pumping more BPS than I could count, and my bubble counter was not responding like I would have hoped.

So today I have started dosing CO2 via a ceramic disc fed to the Maxijet 400. There is now a VERY fine mist of constant CO2 all over the tank. It's almost like fog. I hope this gets me the results I am looking for.
 

Philosophos

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I'm guessing that was from Davemonkey?

He's a good guy, knows his plants, but I have to disagree with him this time around. Glosso has been grown very nicely under low light numerous times; odds are every big name in the hobby has done at least one low light glosso tank. This means that for some set of variables, glosso does not require high light to carpet.

I'm not saying that increased light won't offer carpeted glosso. It's also possible that high light means adding more points of lighting source, and offer more even lighting. I've seen personal evidence of even lighting rather than fluctuating helping things, but nothing strenuously tested.

I was going to look for some good pictures that aren't from one magazine or other, but it looks like Tom has done good glosso under low light:
[APD] re: glosso at low light

-Philosophos
 

Biollante

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String Bean Glosso

Hi,

I confess I have not had great success with the low dense growth of Glosso in low light though Gerry and mountaindew show otherwise http://www.barrreport.com/you-new-a...glossostigma-hard-water.html?highlight=Glosso and I know others including Tom Barr have as well. ;)

However, at this time I would be far more concerned with water parameters under control than string bean looking Glosso. :rolleyes:

Once the CO2 problems are taken care of you can adjust your light to whatever level, you like, as long as you adjust the CO2 and other parameters along the way. :)

APC is a fine forum and generally, a fine bunch, different folks hold different opinions. I am with Philosophos.

Biollante
 

ir0n_ma1den

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I am getting a shipment of a variety of Polygonum species, P. Stellatus, Tonina, and other plants tomorrow. I'm a little scared that my lighting will not suffice, but it should, right?
 

Tom Barr

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Here's HC, and the same tank had Gloss a bit ago as well:

mossrock26th.jpg


40-50 micromols, pretty low light.

You'll note however, there's no other plants blocking the light either.

A good design allows you have the light distributed well.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Philosophos

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P. stellatus will be fine; I've found it's a tougher plant in terms of survival, but it will make a stink if your CO2 or any structure related nutrients are off. Light was nowhere near an issue.

The other two just never seem to suit my scape, so I can't speak from experience on them specifically. I can say that I've never found a plant that won't grow in your level of lighting.

-Philosopho
 

ir0n_ma1den

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Did a water change today and noticed this stuff:

DSC05322.jpg


DSC05324.jpg


It's on everything. I think its some kind of algae, but I can only see it when I produce a ton of micro bubbles.
 

ir0n_ma1den

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So over Christmas I was away from the tank for 7 days. That's 7 days with a 6 hour light schedule, 65w of PC, CO2 for 6 hours, and no dosing. I came back to find decent growth and a cleaner looking tank (less algae). So I'm thinking now that maybe my tank for some reason does not want:

• KNO3 7/16 teaspoon
• KH2PO4 1/32 teaspoon
• K2SO4 1/32 teaspoon
• MgSO4 1/3 teaspoon

Alternate three days:
• CSM+B 1/3 teaspoon


I'm just having trouble finding a good place to start.
 

Biollante

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That Is Dramatic!

ir0n_ma1den;45228 said:
So over Christmas I was away from the tank for 7 days. That's 7 days with a 6 hour light schedule, 65w of PC, CO2 for 6 hours, and no dosing. I came back to find decent growth and a cleaner looking tank (less algae). So I'm thinking now that maybe my tank for some reason does not want:

• KNO3 7/16 teaspoon
• KH2PO4 1/32 teaspoon
• K2SO4 1/32 teaspoon
• MgSO4 1/3 teaspoon

Alternate three days:
• CSM+B 1/3 teaspoon


I'm just having trouble finding a good place to start.

Hi,

Well, that is dramatic!:)

That is observation!

I had you on rather high Nitrates and potassium, let us try backing-off substantially and see what happens. Eliminate the K2SO4 entirely and cut the KNO3 by almost half.

Do a big water change then three days a week dose:
  • KNO3 ¼ teaspoon
  • KH2PO4 1/32 teaspoon
  • MgSO4.7H2O 1/3 teaspoon
On alternate days dose:
  • CSM+B 1/3 teaspoon

Biollante
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ir0n_ma1den

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For the past 13 days I've been dosing:

¼ tsp KN03
1/16 tsp KH2P04
1/16 tsp of K2SO4

1/16 tsp of trace

65w of PC at 8 hours a day

The plants seem to be thriving and the algae seems to be at a standstill.

I'll post pictures later tonight.
 

aquabillpers

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I've come late to this thread, but after seeing the posts for the last 5 months it seems that you are making progress.

There are so many variables!

I will suggest that the bottom of your tank appears dark, in part because of shading of the taller plants and in part because of the depth of the tank. While the amount of light that your tank is getting sounds high, by the time it reaches the bottom much of it has dissipated.

I have a low tech 29 gallon tank, and i use 3 X 20 daylight T12's with mediocre reflectors. At a depth of 5 inches I've measured 1700 lux (about 35 micromoles), but at a depth of 16 inches, at the bottom of a 29, that is reduced to 500 lux (about 10 micromoles). That is not enough to grow most plants. Some algae does well under it, though.

(As long as the light being measured is in the 400 to 700 nanometer range, lux can be converted to micromoles by dividing by 54.)

Good luck!

Bill
 

Gerryd

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Hi,

That's 7 days with a 6 hour light schedule, 65w of PC, CO2 for 6 hours, and no dosing

IMO, this lower light is the main agent for change. Less light will require less nutes (of which you provided none except fish waste) and slow growth.

You supplied c02 which is the MAIN nutrient and the plants needed time to adjust to the lower light levels, and the other nutes were in sufficient or possibly limiting amounts for the light/c02 levels.

Light intensity and duration are the root causes of many growth and algae issue usually coupled with insufficient c02...

One of the best moves I have made in a long time was to reduce the intensity and duration of my light.

I am now 50-75 micromoles at the substrate and about 175-200 at the substrate for 9.5 hours daily. I used to be at twice or more the PAR ranges noted!!!!!! Talk about high light! I want to raise higher but at 24" already, it kinda looks stupid and lights too much of the room.