Hygro Turning Red & Macrandra Showing Deficiency Signs

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
Hello guys ... !
Its been a month and a half now ..!
It seems Rotala Macrandra isn't doing good and that reddish tint on Hygrophila Leaves confusing me...!

Its been a couple of weeks now since the HC leaves having red pigmentations on it...
Is it something to worry about ?

Monte Carlo isn't spreading... Too stunted growth..!
I need help to figure out the deficiencies my plants are having ( IF THERE IS ANY).

I dose EI .. Except Nitrate, Calcium & Magnesium missing.

Water parameters ...!
GH= 18
KH=17
Nitrate = 40-50 ppm ( fluctuates )
Phosphate = 0.5-1 ppm
Ammonia = 0-.25
Nitrite = 0
pH = 8.3-8.4 Degassed .. 7.3 When CO2 On..!
WATER Temp = 27 °C
Photoperiod = 7 Hours no break.

Light = 232 w ( 100 watt flood light + 22w x6 tube ) all LEDs
Tank size = 48 W x 18 D x 30 H inches.
Total Water 367 L Display Tank + 50 L Sump

Pressurized CO2 used ..!

20181119_133403.jpg


20181119_133412.jpg


20181119_133412.jpg
 

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
Hi Neil,

Welcome to The Barr Report.

What products are you using for your micro-nutrients and macro-nutrients?


All raw chems.

Ferrous Sulphate
Nitrate SKIPPED [ TOO HIGH IN WATER
Mono potassium Phosphate

Magnesium Sulphate
Chelated Traces

So far I was using Seachem .. But now switched to EI .. Dosing as per EI prescribes
 

Seattle_Aquarist

Guru Class Expert
Aug 31, 2008
511
97
28
Seattle, WA
Hi @Neil,

What I notice on the photo below is how the new leaves have green veins but much lighter leaf material between the veins. This is called interveinal chlorosis. There are several things that can cause interveinal chlorosis but the most common one when it happens on new leaves is a lack of iron.
20181119_133403-jpg.14332

Yes, you are dosing iron however is it available to the plants? The availability of the iron in ETDA chelated iron (the most common chelate- as in CSM+B) drops substantially to plants as the pH increases above [email protected] At at pH of 7.2 likely less than 5% of the iron being dosed is available to your plants. I don't have any experience with Iron Sulfate so I cannot say if it is available to your plants or not.

What I suggest is picking up a bottle of Seachem Flourish Iron, which is made from ferrous gluconate. If you cannot find the product, or ferrous gluconate, see if you can find some EDDHA chelated iron (it will tint water red) or the next best would be DTPA chelated iron.

When you start dosing the new source of iron do not watch your existing leaves, they likely will not change. Instead look at the new leaves as they emerge. They should look greener, healthier, and the interveinal chlorosis we see in the photo should not be present.

Keep us posted as things progress! -Roy
Vrjyzrxrw0bGQp7MJPUxFCURwXy2nlpLTMVBb3uBZJiRfj7OUHGO5yl43Crc5Ow0StkgXfeXgGe-ipLZ2LQ9jcmX76_OkHoD3cY46nxXq_BZyKD373CVqNiCZ-l_RqXUExRX3RZ-KTuwdvgCuMj0Dz6lpBKq0O8hn4GTvS90tODJZemlGs2bVBsJm0htI_OzOuscDp0grr8zc40YuZV3VW99fubYfv5Q8YQsoPao7xH5YPCntET3vkOpkbbD_a0hsW-UecMd4c7JGwClS8EvXffd0KHrhMOzDodrJKK4txjzxXhF-9NPRLuqELI-An9XY8ecwd_dto7YRmmiryMfR4sVTe-koltvh8z8vS7yFSPs-0KBzfRL5YPSELQ-iQrJPMR7d3e2mFpRTEy4D5IyixP59w2cjrBGandl5qSqxSQF4OXrQ1s8eGGBpDLLCQPjrrrUVbpd9BBFoLko-CaEnj7KQ_0ssaei9p_cigLuFAwbyXHKldHKuC4o-3jeano_pLdkhGhsJSZbQTMQUP6kBtSFjfPX0AyMERxdDXnrLN10ORDfQV7iz_5CXGDZa10cE5F-YzY5xNIf4TPu2ctuK9gSIkD6dLTa7byIcXbTI-qdzSjTsuwri_H6qWQr1c7T2S_mmfpX6PSzJt1V3vO6HJzQYbsT5-BsuZMYq4hrD-7hKidVD1pAThGd4IQLStyFq6JWnxATBvAnh4Zamw=w561-h691-no
 

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
Hi @Neil,

What I notice on the photo below is how the new leaves have green veins but much lighter leaf material between the veins. This is called interveinal chlorosis. There are several things that can cause interveinal chlorosis but the most common one when it happens on new leaves is a lack of iron.
20181119_133403-jpg.14332

Yes, you are dosing iron however is it available to the plants? The availability of the iron in ETDA chelated iron (the most common chelate- as in CSM+B) drops substantially to plants as the pH increases above [email protected] At at pH of 7.2 likely less than 5% of the iron being dosed is available to your plants. I don't have any experience with Iron Sulfate so I cannot say if it is available to your plants or not.

What I suggest is picking up a bottle of Seachem Flourish Iron, which is made from ferrous gluconate. If you cannot find the product, or ferrous gluconate, see if you can find some EDDHA chelated iron (it will tint water red) or the next best would be DTPA chelated iron.

When you start dosing the new source of iron do not watch your existing leaves, they likely will not change. Instead look at the new leaves as they emerge. They should look greener, healthier, and the interveinal chlorosis we see in the photo should not be present.

Keep us posted as things progress! -Roy
Vrjyzrxrw0bGQp7MJPUxFCURwXy2nlpLTMVBb3uBZJiRfj7OUHGO5yl43Crc5Ow0StkgXfeXgGe-ipLZ2LQ9jcmX76_OkHoD3cY46nxXq_BZyKD373CVqNiCZ-l_RqXUExRX3RZ-KTuwdvgCuMj0Dz6lpBKq0O8hn4GTvS90tODJZemlGs2bVBsJm0htI_OzOuscDp0grr8zc40YuZV3VW99fubYfv5Q8YQsoPao7xH5YPCntET3vkOpkbbD_a0hsW-UecMd4c7JGwClS8EvXffd0KHrhMOzDodrJKK4txjzxXhF-9NPRLuqELI-An9XY8ecwd_dto7YRmmiryMfR4sVTe-koltvh8z8vS7yFSPs-0KBzfRL5YPSELQ-iQrJPMR7d3e2mFpRTEy4D5IyixP59w2cjrBGandl5qSqxSQF4OXrQ1s8eGGBpDLLCQPjrrrUVbpd9BBFoLko-CaEnj7KQ_0ssaei9p_cigLuFAwbyXHKldHKuC4o-3jeano_pLdkhGhsJSZbQTMQUP6kBtSFjfPX0AyMERxdDXnrLN10ORDfQV7iz_5CXGDZa10cE5F-YzY5xNIf4TPu2ctuK9gSIkD6dLTa7byIcXbTI-qdzSjTsuwri_H6qWQr1c7T2S_mmfpX6PSzJt1V3vO6HJzQYbsT5-BsuZMYq4hrD-7hKidVD1pAThGd4IQLStyFq6JWnxATBvAnh4Zamw=w561-h691-no
Hello Sir,
Sorry for the late reply ... was having very tight schedule so far.
Anyways ... i tried Both Seachem's Iron Gluconate and EDDHA...
FeEDDHA 6% was super fine i must say ...
Due to high pH Seachem Iron was precipitating... That's where things went wrong.
I'm attaching the current snaps... leaves are looking alittle better than before.

Right now only one thing is troubling me ...
Ive started using RO water (Last tested results : KH= 9 GH=14 pH=8.2 (degassed)/ pH=7.2(Dissolved CO2) & Nitrate= 25 ppm)
Earlier KH i had 20 degrees.. that was way too high...
As you can see here my KH has reduced significantly but still pH isn't changing at all ... and 8+ pH putting stress on my plants.
So far I've reduced KH by diluting with RO (pH= 6) water ... 20% WC every 3rd day.

20181201_110716.jpg


20181201_110750.jpg


20181201_110841.jpg
 

Seattle_Aquarist

Guru Class Expert
Aug 31, 2008
511
97
28
Seattle, WA
Hi @Neil,

Keep up the iron and the dosing of other nutrients as you have been. Have you discontinued the magnesium or are you still dosing it?

Specifically what are you using for "Chelated Traces"?
 
Last edited:

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
Hi @Neil,

Keep up the iron and the dosing of other nutrients as you have been. Have you discontinued the magnesium or are you still dosing it?
Yes sir.. Still dosing ..
Started using RO water... so im dosing Epsom Salt ... dosed alittle yesterday, would increase gradually if i don't see any signs of stress on my fish.
 

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
OK, so you are putting 1 teaspoon in a dosing bottle. How many ml in the dosing bottle so I can determine the ppm's of the various nutrients being dosed.
500 ml bottle ... 10 ml dosing
TOTAL Water 420-430 L ( Display + Sump)
Plant load: Moderate I would say ..( too many species but not full grown) except a few.
 

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
No Sir ... for Iron im dosing Fe EDDHA 06 % separately...! (Since my water quality is abit in the basic side)
Trace has Iron in it .. but im not relying on it for the Iron.

My Dosing list:
RO Water 41 TDS
Dosing bottle as i mentioned earlier

Nitrate : Skipped (Even RO water has ~20 ppm)
Phosphate : 1.5 ppm maintained
Potassium: 10 ppm

Calcium Nitrate & Magnesium Sulphate= 10 & 6 ppm respectively.
Iron = (About 70 grams in 500 ml water)
Trace as i mentioned earlier...

Macro & Micro Alternate Days dosing...!
 
Last edited:

Seattle_Aquarist

Guru Class Expert
Aug 31, 2008
511
97
28
Seattle, WA
Hi @Neil


Actually I was looking into the possibility of a boron (B) deficiency; when I did the calculations it looks like you are only dosing .0012 ppm of boron (B) where typically we look at 0.06 ppm of boron. That is why I asked @fablau to check my calculations.

That calcium nitrate may have something to do with your Nitrate levels.

How many times a week are you dosing the calcium and magnesium?

Please just call me Roy
-Roy
 

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
Hi @Neil


Actually I was looking into the possibility of a boron (B) deficiency; when I did the calculations it looks like you are only dosing .0012 ppm of boron (B) where typically we look at 0.06 ppm of boron. That is why I asked @fablau to check my calculations.

That calcium nitrate may have something to do with your Nitrate levels.

How many times a week are you dosing the calcium and magnesium?

Please just call me Roy
-Roy
P&K (Alternatively)
Cal (10 ppm) & Mag (6 ppm) in Macro days but twice a week

Iron Alternatively
Trace- Weekly (The day i dose Iron).
 

Seattle_Aquarist

Guru Class Expert
Aug 31, 2008
511
97
28
Seattle, WA
Hi @Neil,

Also, with a dGH=18 I would see if you can find some Potassium Nitrate to replace the Calcium Nitrate. Why? It seems that you may already have 'hard water' and adding additional calcium is not helping. Also excess calcium can effect the uptake of two of the major nutrients, potassium and magnesium.
 

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
OK, so you are putting 1 teaspoon in a dosing bottle. How many ml in the dosing bottle so I can determine the ppm's of the various nutrients being dosed.
500 ml bottle ... 10 ml dosing
TOTAL Water 420-430 L ( Display + Sump)
Plant load: Moderate I would say ..( too many species but not full grown) except a few.

Hi @Neil,

Also, with a dGH=18 I would see if you can find some Potassium Nitrate to replace the Calcium Nitrate. Why? It seems that you may already have 'hard water' and adding additional calcium is not helping. Also excess calcium can effect the uptake of two of the major nutrients, potassium and magnesium.
Hello ..
Please don't follow that dGH figure that's a week old now ... I've started using RO Water as I said ... I can tell you today's result... dGH 11 and dKH 8... And the figure will reduce day by day ... As I do 20-25% water change every 3rd day with RO water ... RO water will dilute the hardness over time ...
 

Neil

Member
Oct 15, 2018
30
2
8
India
YYess .... Calcium toxicity ... May be !! I'll have a look at it then ..
Its better to hold down the calcium dosing as still my tank hardness KH 8 ...in theory enough Ca should be there ...
I'm targeting KH 2 ... for Toninas ... !
 
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