120 gallon pic Nov 3rd

Tom Barr

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I've sold about 20 Erios from this patch over the last 2 weeks and I still have this much. Doing much better sales wise than the E cinereum.
 

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rjordan393;130804 said:
Tom,
If the tank has CO2 injection, then why the surface agitation? Nice tank by the way.



Because CO2 and O2 are independent. It's a CO2 enriched aquarium.
You need ample O2, so add good CO2, give decent current to keep O2 up.
 

Orlando

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Colors like this make me feel like my eyes are bleeding. Awesome. Gotta love them T5HO"s!
 

rjordan393

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Tom Barr;130810 said:
Because CO2 and O2 are independent. It's a CO2 enriched aquarium.
You need ample O2, so add good CO2, give decent current to keep O2 up.

Some of us are advocating very low surface movement because the plants are providing the oxygen. But your tank is contrary to that advice. The rippling effect also provides oxygen at the expense of driving off CO2. So if extra oxygen is provided, how does one determine the proper balance between oxygen and CO2?
Another point; Why provide oxygen for the plants during the lighting period when they do not use it? Now those with a heavy fish load may need it. That I understand. There appears to be about 50 tetras in that tank.
 
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Tom Barr

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rjordan393;130819 said:
Some of us are advocating very low surface movement because the plants are providing the oxygen. But your tank is contrary to that advice. The rippling effect also provides oxygen at the expense of driving off CO2. So if extra oxygen is provided, how does one determine the proper balance between oxygen and CO2?
Another point; Why provide oxygen for the plants during the lighting period when they do not use it? Now those with a heavy fish load may need it. That I understand. There appears to be about 50 tetras in that tank.

So if you had 50 tetras in a 50 Gallon tank, would you advocate the same advice if there were no plants? Do you think plants produce O2 24/7?
Nope.

You lose only a small amount of CO2, so what? You can turn the gas up 1/20th of a turn on the valve....... but gain a lot more O2.
Better current= better growth also.

There are 120 tetras, 3 double truck elephant noses, a dozen plecos, 1000 Fire shrimp? No idea on that one. And plants consume O2 also...........at night and during the day.............and then all the bacteria consumes O2 24/7 also.

1-2 ppm additional O2 is huge.

Rippling does not drive much CO2 off BTW, if you ripple so hard it breaks the surface, then it does start to drive off the CO2.
So just before that point seems ideal.
 

rjordan393

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Do you think plants produce O2 24/7?
I think most experience fish keepers already know that they produce it only during photosynthesis and consumed it by bacterial action 24/7.

1-2 ppm additional O2 is huge.
That is correct as I prove that to myself using a Hach O2 test kit. While using an Accella power head rated at 266 gph and with its discharge under the surface but aimed at the surface, I was able to increased O2 levels from 6.3 ppm at 8:00 pm to 8.3 ppm at 8:00 am. But on the other hand, I drove off some CO2 because the water's pH started out at 6.42 at 8:00 pm and at 8:00 am, it was 7.43.

Without aeration overnight, the O2 level stayed at 6.2 ppm and the pH increased from 6.39 to 7.04 at 8:00 am.

Now your light ripple effect at the surface has given me an idea. I am thinking about adjusting my two power heads that are well below the surface, a bit higher until I see a ripple effect similar to your picture. I want to see if the extra O2 has an effect on black and green spot algae. I think it may take 4 to 6 weeks to determine this.
 

Tom Barr

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Sounds like the tank never degassed much CO2 at night and thus you can also state that the tank also did not have much transfer of O2 INTO the aquarium either.
That's not the best management for fish.

The CO2 is only added during the light periods. No reason to have it or have it hang around otherwise. You had very little degassing.
If you add a bit more, again, so what? You gain a much better environment for fish and the plants.

Seems you should max the O2 1st................then add enough CO2 to target a good CO2 rate.
If you aggressively break the water surface, then it's very hard for the CO2 addition without losing it asap.
But you also do not GAIN any added O2 from going that aggressive with the current, there's a trade off here.

If you add just enough current to NOT break the surface, then you strike optimal O2 and then good CO2 management.
Not all tanks will do poorly without such current.........and if you use a wet/dry filter, surface skimming, then you gain more O2 and have less need to have surface movement.
My 70 Gallon is like that, it's mostly a "still" surface.
The 180, not so much, nor the 120.

Some folks only have a few fish, then it's less of an issue also.
But I think it's overstated about having people minimize the water movement to save CO2. We waste most of the gas anyway to the degassing.
Low O2 also causes many aquarist to claim they cannot add more CO2 without gassing their fish. Their tank's issue is not the CO2, it's the low O2 they have.
Respiration is both CO2 and O2.

So max the O2 where adding more current not longer helps/increases O2, then add CO2, that will give you the best overall management and widest user flexibility over a CO2 dosing rate.
This can help aquarist much better than suggesting little surface movement to save a small amount of CO2. That's easy to add a little more to compensate.
 

Tom Barr

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Also, you can add degassing/higher current only during the night.
 

Thumper828

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Been a member for a while,..trying to learn all I can. Tom, your tank looks awesome,..do you keep your nitrates extremely low to get that kind of color from your plants..?
 

rjordan393

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I used to have good aeration at the surface but I did not stay with it because I did not see immediant results after a week or two. But looking at your reply tells
me I was hasty and not patient. So today, I adjusted my power heads to give me some ripple at the water surface. In the future I may need to adjust them or add a separate power at the surface at night controlled by a timer.
More O2 in the tank has to help because this reminds me of what happens if one uses a shower to bathe and leaves the curtain close after they leave. If this happens enough, then mold forms on the tile grout because of not enough air circulation.
 

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Thumper828;130843 said:
Been a member for a while,..trying to learn all I can. Tom, your tank looks awesome,..do you keep your nitrates extremely low to get that kind of color from your plants..?

No, the opposite,. I add at least 30 ppm a week and then feed the fish a lot.
 

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rjordan393;130844 said:
I used to have good aeration at the surface but I did not stay with it because I did not see immediant results after a week or two. But looking at your reply tells
me I was hasty and not patient. So today, I adjusted my power heads to give me some ripple at the water surface. In the future I may need to adjust them or add a separate power at the surface at night controlled by a timer.
More O2 in the tank has to help because this reminds me of what happens if one uses a shower to bathe and leaves the curtain close after they leave. If this happens enough, then mold forms on the tile grout because of not enough air circulation.

It's not an on/off effect and the real benefit is the fish health and then the ability to add more CO2 without harming them.
Takes some trial and error to get it just right.