If a plant doesn't like your nutrient soup it can gtfo of your kitchen. Well at least that's the policy I've been picking up as of late.
Had to restart the 20H again. As it turns out, capping fresh Aquasoil/powersand with bdbs is NOT a good idea!
The tank's had a wicked green water bloom for the past 6 weeks. The slightest disturbance would bring it on, like pulling 3 stems of something up. In the beginning my little portable 5 watt UV would knock it out but for the last month it wouldnt even touch it. So bad you couldnt see 3" past the front glass.
So I decided to just restart it.
Thanks Vin for the info provided above. It is very interesting the fact you can control GDA by lowering nitrates. I have actually experienced the same exact thing in my 20gl in the garage: I screwed nitrates for the past month (for a dosing mistake) and was dosing double nitrates, and they must have accumulated too much because I started seeing GDA in the glass and some BGA around (and some plants suffered a little as well)... well, I performed several water changes and got back into the right dosing, and everything is now back to normal after just 1 week. And Nitrates were the only thing I changed to make algae appear!
Vin this discussion is very interesting to me, and is something that I believe is little understood in the general planted tank community.
I've learned that different species have different optimum parameters. I got into a few discussions (arguments) with folks who thought they had the perfect fert formula. Fert nirvana if you will. Proof was perfect Wallichii growing by itself in a small tank. My argument was always let's see what happens when you throw some Pantanal or another 20 species in there with it. Not so optimum for everything else is my guess.
I'm grateful to see your experiments, as it sheds light on how different species react to different environments. Very much aligns with my own experience. A good example is the Senegalensis above. I had some for a short time, but it never really did much. Seeing how it is loving low nitrates, my very high nutrient rich environment was probably not a good fit.
Lots of posts asking what's my deficiency with a certain plant. Problem is try to please that one and who knows what else suffers. IMO truth is some will be very difficult if not impossible to keep together at peak health. And if you value your sanity you should take into consideration.
Anyway, really valuable stuff, so thanks again.
Had to restart my new 20H and decided to try a kill tank experiment of my own. Vin asked me to post it here
So....we'll see how it goes!
Me too.That micro-knowledge is inconsequential to most hobbyists. But it's fun for me.
Can't wait to see how this turns out. My guess is that the hungry plants will struggle for a month or so until they get their roots well into the Osmocote layer. You'll have to white knuckle it until then, resisting the urge to toss everything out. Things may go sideways until the roots tap the O+ balls. FWIW, this is almost by-the-book Romanian style dosing.
Dennis uses a lot less iron than you do, IIRC.
Also, that Blyxa is not alternifolia. Correct name is probably Blyxa aubertii 'Novoguineensis' (The real B novoguineensis is a stem plant that's not in the hobby. The TC plant sold as novoguineensis is japonica. This plant is from Europe where it is sold as B. novoguineensis, but it is really a smaller, reddish version of aubertii.)
High nitrate + balanced tank = no GDA
High nitrate + slight imbalance = immediate GDA
Low nitrate + slight imbalance = no GDA
I've seen this over and over.
If you know exactly what to do to achieve healthy plants and balance, then go for high nitrate. But if you think you are constantly trying to reach balance, stick with lower nitrate.
If BGA is caused by low nitrates, my big tank should be covered in BGA. But I am not seeing it. In my experience, BGA is a sign of neglect - neglect of substrate, neglect of filters, neglect of old plants, neglect of water change, and other neglect.
I spent almost 2 months in Asia, several countries, this past summer. And I saw a lot of tanks. It is VERY unusual for them to use nosebleed CO2 and EI level ferts. They think it is unnecessary or excessive. I'd generalize and say they all use about half as much light and CO2 compared to those of us living in North America. Virtually all of them use clay soils like Aquasoil. Of course they also struggle with plants like Pantanal. You just don't see it in Asia.
Then there are the Dutch masters. They all use inert substrates. Occasionally stick clay balls or root tabs under hungry plants. They all use less light and far less CO2 than we do. The result speak for themselves.
Then you have the Romanians. I have not been there. But they don't use Aquasoil (could be an affordability thing) and use inert gravel instead. They have a unique style and again, most of them use very light macro dosing. I'd guess an average of 2 ppm nitrate per day. Richer than Asian tanks because of inert substrate. But their method is very successful. If you want to follow their style, look up Marian Sterian on Facebook. His tanks are classic of that style - less daunting and more approachable for beginners than classic Dutch style.
If you layer all of these equally successful fertilizing styles with what I've shared here and on the old Dutch tank thread, you get the big picture.
I am just wondering: the fact we use high light, and consequently high Co2, is mostly because of growing super-red plants... right? So, my simple question is: how those asian folks deal with red plants? Can they get the same kind of "red" we get by using high light? Otherwise, of course, if you don't strive for that kind of colors and tanks, you can certainly settle for lower lights, lower Co2 and lower ferts... is my reasoning here correct?
This tank right vin?
it'd be cool if someone manages to get some bottles and get them analyzed
Vin hope you don't mind but Dennis posted a newsletter article on growing red plants. I think it's worth a read for many.Asians deal with red plants using two methods:
Other than that, Asian tanks are not that red.
- They use plants that stay red regardless of light - Luwdigia sp Red. etc.
- Their low nitrate turn several Rotala species, Hygro pinnatifida, and plants like Ludwigia arcuata red from the stress.
Experts like Dennis (not a proxy for most Asian scapers!) use super rich substrate with lean water column and high light. But that's rare.
oh didn't know he owned the companyYup. That's his tank. Marian operates at a very high level. Reminds me a lot of Burr. His maintenance discipline rivals Burr's. Clear to see by looking at the tank. Substrate and lighting is also similar to Burr's.
Marian's water is softer than Burr's, so you'll see better Tonina and Syngonanthus. And possibly slightly healthier Lythraceae.
But his fert routine is moderate. He adds about 10-2-15 per week and does 50% WC weekly. So there may be some accumulation over time. This is roughly where my big tank is and where a lot of un-stunting occurred.
I have Marian's Masterline ferts with me in powder form. I had a friend of mine carry it from Europe for me. I haven't tried it yet, but I will once I'm done with a few experiments. Marian's Masterline business is fairly new and he has the right to sell a proprietary formula. I haven't pushed him to disclose any more than he has on Facebook. If I did and he obliged, I'd still be tight-lipped about it to support his business. Still, he has (as has Colin) shared 'rough approximations' of what their formulas contain. I think that is very fair.
oh didn't know he owned the company
to be honest I'm more curious about ratios than actual numbers, idk how important ratios are
gonna be testing 3x a week
Fe - Fe DPTA 11% - 0.5 ppm
Mn - MnSO4.H2O - 0.166 ppm
B - H3BO3 - 0.170 ppm
Zn - ZnSO4.H2O 35.5% - 0.170 ppm
Mo -Na2MoO4.2H2O - 0.005 ppm
Ni - NiSO4.6H2O - 0.001 ppm
Cu - CuSO4.5H2O - 0.002 ppm
S - SO4 - 0.178 ppm
We ('Mericans) use high light because 'more' is fun. Why have less when you can have more? That thinking is baked into our DNA. It's just who we are. But we rationalize that with the need to grow redder plants. There is some truth to that rationalization, I suppose. Then there's the issue of the horsepower race with LED lights. They keep getting brighter with each generation. They are getting cheaper and many noobs simply have no clue how insanely bright their tanks are. A lot fewer people would quit the hobby in frustration if they used half as much light.
Asians deal with red plants using two methods:
Other than that, Asian tanks are not that red.
- They use plants that stay red regardless of light - Luwdigia sp Red. etc.
- Their low nitrate turn several Rotala species, Hygro pinnatifida, and plants like Ludwigia arcuata red from the stress.
Experts like Dennis (not a proxy for most Asian scapers!) use super rich substrate with lean water column and high light. But that's rare.
High nitrate + balanced tank = no GDA
High nitrate + slight imbalance = immediate GDA
Low nitrate + slight imbalance = no GDA
I've seen this over and over.
He used to have a journal on tpt, right up to probably a few months before that pic was taken. Chalupabatman (I think) was his user nameThat tank is stunning indeed... I’d love to know the details about it.
As for lower nitrates than we all are dosing, what about trying lowering just 10-20% and see if that causes any improvements?
He used to have a journal on tpt, right up to probably a few months before that pic was taken. Chalupabatman (I think) was his user name
He’s the demonstration that we can have high light, red plants and low water column dosing (but rich substrate!)