Rotala Kill Tank

rajkm

Article Editor
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Article Editor
Sep 16, 2015
693
222
43
Hillsboro, OR
Bite your tongue, Raj! It's one of the rarest Rotalas in the world. I hope you gave it to someone else instead of chucking it.

I did chuck it. I got it when my soil was new and i grew it from one dying stem to 8-10 when it was doing well. I posted a few pics of it on FB and then chucked it. It stayed green for me and I was looking at it getting orange tops like Fazal said it should which it never did.

I never got hands on sahyadrica. Last few times he tried shipping it didn’t make it.

Ohh well.. may be I’ll try to source it again later if it survives shipping.
 

Pikez

Rotala Killer!
Moderator
May 12, 2013
1,963
1,491
113
Close (but not too close) to LA
Vin do you have any AR variegated in the kill tank? Curious how flat the leaf edges get

Macrandas, wallichii, Didiplis all do fine. Sunsets do great about 80% of the time. They'll grow wonderful for 6 months and then die all of a sudden.

Ammanias generally grow but look like shit. Currently have some crassicaulis doing...so so

All of the above is with high ferts, high co2 and high light. Its the same basic result in both sand and aquasoil. Sand tanks have a little O+

I've tried briefly a couple times low-dosing the Aquasoil tank but other stuff dont like it, and is quick to let me know. So I havent explored that option enough to see what would happen

Yes, I have AR Variegated in the Osmocote Kill Tank. And, no, the leaves are NOT flat. The plant is getting bushy and growing, but no, leaves margins are still slightly crinkled.

Sunsets are STILL not freaking happy in this tank. They are doing the usual thing they always do. Droop and die. WTF!

Other Lythraceae are fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Greggz

Pikez

Rotala Killer!
Moderator
May 12, 2013
1,963
1,491
113
Close (but not too close) to LA
User AgMa on TPT

Spreadsheet.jpg


Since the spreadsheet a few weeks ago he's raised NO3 and K by 5 ppm per week, PO4 currently 3. Fe is Seachem iron.

FWIW - AgMa's macros are almost exactly the same as my big farm (ex-Dutch tank). Micros too.

I am growing most Lythraceae in that tank well...for the first time. It may not seem obvious, but this is a nitrate-limited dosing routine, assuming you have rich CO2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Greggz

Pikez

Rotala Killer!
Moderator
May 12, 2013
1,963
1,491
113
Close (but not too close) to LA
Proserpinaca palustris varieties in the Osmocote Kill Tank

Cuba on top. Maryland below. The latter is a much bigger plant, almost 3-4" across when super happy. But I know this: neither plant was happy in the nitrate-limited 'Dutch tank' that gets only 15 ppm nitrates per week. They almost diet and I had to move them to the Osmocote tank to revive them.

And you can see the similarity in leaf structure to Myriophyllum sp. Vietnam that you see a little bit of at right edge of the image.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Phishless

Pikez

Rotala Killer!
Moderator
May 12, 2013
1,963
1,491
113
Close (but not too close) to LA
Good new, bad news: I have Rotala sahyadrica, after all! But it is not happy. Look at the snakeskin pattern that R. sahyadrica is prone to when it's less than perfectly happy. I am not sure what causes it. But as far as I know, it is the only Rotala that displays this weird leaf-misery symptom. R. tulunadensis does not do this and appears to not be bothered by whatever is bothering the sahyarica.

 
  • Like
Reactions: fablau and burr740

Pikez

Rotala Killer!
Moderator
May 12, 2013
1,963
1,491
113
Close (but not too close) to LA
Floscopa sp. India flowering submerged. I took this pic while doing a water change. This is a much more desirable plant than the weedy, lanky Floscopa scandens found in North America.

Floscopa sp. India has pink undersides to the leaves, has a much thinner stem, not too weedy, handles crowding, is fairly vertical in growth, and is drama-free. I sent Burr a bunch of this stuff.



Hygrophila ringens. Similar to H. lancea but pickier. Needs high nutrients, high light and CO2 to look nice. It's tall, leggy, with skinny red leaves. Not weedy and does not like to be crowded. (Other plants in pic: Ludwigia senegalensis, Myriophyllum sp. Roraima, Myriophyllum sp. Vietnam, there may be a stem or two of Myriophyllum variifolium. Also, Crypt spiralis Tiger, Floscopa sp. India, Rotala Bangladesh, Rotala rotundifolia H'Ra, may be a stem or two of Lindernia rotundifolia. The Myrio variifolium is a mind-blowing plant - light green like regular Myrios, but bushy and dense.



 
Last edited:

Pikez

Rotala Killer!
Moderator
May 12, 2013
1,963
1,491
113
Close (but not too close) to LA
If I get a new plant or if I want to keep a plant alive or if I am not certain how delicate a plant is, this Osmocote tank has become my go-to.

I moved 4 rare, new, plants into it because I know it will grow it well:

  1. Diodia virginiana (because it didn't like the big Dutch tank and its low nitrates)
  2. Gratiola virginiana. (I'm going to grow both 'Virginiana' plants side by side. Because.)
  3. Myriophyllum variifolium. It's rare and I can't afford to kill it by putting it elsewhere.
  4. Sagittaria graminea (no, not the one you're thinking of. This is small.)
Huh. Whowouldathunkit? The Hail Mary nutrient experiment seemed like a disaster. Now its the tank I rely on most.
 

fablau

rotalabutterfly.com
Staff member
Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
3,015
679
113
53
Laguna Niguel, CA
www.fablauplants.com
Got to try this new kind of “Osmocote tank”... do you think it is possible to find the perfect situation in this environment by finding a balanced, maybe lean regime for the water column?
 

rajkm

Article Editor
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Article Editor
Sep 16, 2015
693
222
43
Hillsboro, OR
I am surprised you are not getting stunting I suffered from high water column phosphate leaching from osmocote.
Mine was however eco complete, your being soil, it might bind those phosphate.
How long has it been since setup?
 

burr740

Micros Spiller
Moderator
Feb 16, 2015
1,404
1,328
113
Yeah that substrate is sucking up P, Id be surprised if there's any at all in the water

O+ does leach a lot of P though especially the first couple of weeks.
 

AgMa

Junior Poster
May 30, 2016
48
5
8
Sorry, never mind, read in his table it is inert substrate ;)

No, it's not inert. It's Seachem flourite black, porous clay.
Ammania is going bad since I increased macro dosing. Now I'm at 30ppm kno3, 30ppm K and 3.6 po4 weekly.

Screenshot_20181021-112932.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: fablau

Phishless

Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Jul 13, 2017
1,103
972
113
Arnold, MD
No, it's not inert. It's Seachem flourite black, porous clay.

The chemical composition of Flourite is meaningless, these elements are most likely not available for plants.
CEC rating of Flourite (1.7) is so low it is basically an inert substrate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fablau

fablau

rotalabutterfly.com
Staff member
Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
3,015
679
113
53
Laguna Niguel, CA
www.fablauplants.com
The chemical composition of Flourite is meaningless, these elements are most likely not available for plants.
CEC rating of Flourite (1.7) is so low it is basically an inert substrate.

Yeah, even Eco Complete shows similar elements in its composition, but as Phishless said, those elements are most likely not available to plants.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phishless

AgMa

Junior Poster
May 30, 2016
48
5
8
Why do you think they are not available? Because of it's low CEC?
I don't disagree, I just want to know.
 

Phishless

Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Jul 13, 2017
1,103
972
113
Arnold, MD
Cation exchange capacity is somewhat independent of composition.
If CEC is high soil can retain and exchange positively charged compounds/elements for plant uptake.

Regarding the composition of the substrate, what will break it down to make it available to plants?
 

Phishless

Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
Jul 13, 2017
1,103
972
113
Arnold, MD
Eco is a ground up lava rock type sub.
Can't imagine is has decent CEC rating.

Clay products depending how they are fired provide best CEC ratings. Anion exchange can also happen but I can't speak on that one.