SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
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Minor Update

The Bad

Pulled out more leaves with holes. All of these are older leaves. Has to be some type of mobile deficiency right?
qqcqwo9l.jpg


Not enough light in this corner, gonna try to find a low light plant for this corner to cover up the bacopa colorota in this area
1P7oPBGh.jpg


Some of the Alternanthere Reineckii Mini is being shaded way too much by the java fern, the Varigated doesn't seem to care. Light is between 31~48 PAR here.
PD6OkDNh.jpg


Perunesis still a lil wavy
GksMGZkh.jpg


The Good
Staurogyne Repens finally doing good, think I it was under way too much light before, this spot is below 100 PAR vs the 140+ from before
uO29Edvh.jpg


The ???
Leopard Val grew a runner and that runner grew a runner lol. Almost been a month now.
r7V0r6Dh.jpg


Right side of the tank hitting the surface again
nCYfmNjh.jpg


Lef side progression shot:
LpFChrkh.jpg


Rolling with this routine for the next couple of weeks. Gonna see if the higher K helps.
312jXvg.png
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
145
155
43
SoCal
Minor update
(Pic from April 20th, 2018)


Something funky going on with the Perunesis. Not sure if the curling is from the recently upped K (weekly is now 40 ppm), some of the leaves were twisted before but not they're just curled so I guess its an improvement? The first 2 set of leaves looking caramelized (dunno how else to describe it) showed up at about 3 weeks ago, same time as the K uppage.





Hydrocotyle tripartia japan is doing fine. it's about 16" across now. Might end up using it as a carpet somewhere if it get's any larger lol


Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides, I think it's still adjusting to my tank. Haven't seen it change much yet.


random notes I jotted down on the 13th

End of week analysis:
NO3 ~60 ppm*
PO4 ~7-8 ppm*
Ca ~80 ppm
Mg ~14-16 ppm*
dkH 10
dgH 15
* tested w/ 50% tank 50% distilled otherwise it would of been to high to read.

Deficiency analysis:
NO3: no
PO4: probable, black patches on Java Fern and Windelov Java Fern
K: probable, holes in various plants but Ludwigia Perunesis leaves are curling (happened with past experiences)

Ca: no
Mg: probable if assuming 4:1 Ca: Mg ratio is needed

Fe: no, 0.1 ppm weekly should be sufficient. no pale leaves
Mn: possibly mistaken for K deficiency
B: no, no stem death
Zn:
Mo: no, tap should be sufficient @ 0.0018 ppm~0.005 ppm along with weekly 0.0009 ppm
Ni: no, no necrotic tips on plants
Cu:
S:


the K was bumped up to 40 ppm weekly 3 weeks ago (up from 30 ppm weekly)
the P was bumped up recently (less than 4 days ago, up from 5 ppm weekly)
the Macro changes will match what Tom Barr had in his 120

reason I'm bumping up the P:

the cell membrane part caught my eye, weak cell membranes could be what's causing holes in some leaves right?
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
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haven't updated here in 5ever. hardscape's been rearranged but I'm not sure I like it. tempted to swap back tbh or grab a big ass box of random ghostwood

September 21st, 2018
Can never get a good shot when both channels of light are on, everything looks paler in the pic than it actually is



morning pre-trim



still need more anubias in some spots of the driftwood




random nite shots







got around to kind of calibrating my NO3 test kit, water report said 17.64 ppm was average but I'm closer to 8-ish?


calibrated my spoons too just incase


applied all that to the current routine

50% of the Perunesis/Glandulosa is still acting up, Ludwigia Nantans / Super Red is starting to act up, AR Varigated still crappy, regular AR Mini is shrinking, and I haven't seen Hygrophila Serphyllum grow since moving to the front right of the tank.
Dropping to weekly NO3 total of 30 ppm instead of 30 ppm from ferts + w/e was in tap. Might help the faux B deficiency in the Ludwigias, faux K deficiency in the Hygrophila Siamensis, and faux Mg in AR Varigated.
Hygrophila Serphyllum might just need more light.
The AR Minis I have no idea what's going on there.

decided to make this after seeing another user do it Greggz thread


wanted to add Vin Kutty's recent experiment to the list but idk what I would list it under
tom's tank that was used for reference https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...-like-ditched-dutch-style-new-pics-137-a.html
dennis' tank https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...-3ft-high-tech-low-tech-nano-experiments.html
Ghanzanfor Ghori's (under the assumption he still uses 13:1.5:13 macros but scaled up)
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
145
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welp ADA's NDA has been lifted

IAPLC 2018






//Fauna
Sahyadria denisonii
Paracheirodon innesi

//Substrate
Black Diamond Blasting Sand

//Tank Dimensions
72.5" x 18.5" x 24.5"

//Filter
CPR CS102 Overflow Box
Jebao DCP-8000
55 Gallon Vision Sump
200 Micron Filter Sock
Plastic Pot Scrubbers

//Light
3x SBReef Freshwater LED, 8 hrs per day.

//CO2
100 cc/min, 8hrs per day.

//Flora:
1. Bacopa Caroliniana
2. Bucephalandra Theia Blue
3. Hygrophila Serpyllum
4. Proserpinaca Palustris
5. Ludwigia Glandulosa
6. Penthorum Sedoides
7. Limnophila Aromatica Hippuroides
8. Limnophila Aromatica
9. Limnophila Rugosa
10. Limnophila Aromatica Mini
11. Bucephalandra Arrogant Blue
12. Ludwigia Repens
13. Staurogyne Repens
14. Anubias MIcro?
15. Windelov Java Fern
16. Java Fern
17. Anubias Golden
18. Alternanthera Reineckii Varigated
19. Lobelia Cardinalis Dwarf
20. Alternanthera Reineckii Mini
21. Hydrocotyle Tripartita Japan
22. Vallisneria Spiralis Leopard
 

burr740

Micros Spiller
Moderator
Feb 16, 2015
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Said the same thing on TPT but I'll say it here too. :)
That's a great result! To place at all is quite an accomplishment. Congratulations!
I think the big green mass is a little overpowering, but it also kinda makes the look. The darkness underneath adds a lot of mystery, like there's something deep and unknown going on there.
Its even more impressive considering all the challenges you faced during the last few months. Really nice job!
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
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Welp time to make a huge gamble dropping NO3 to 15 ppm dosed and K to 22.5 ppm dosed. Curious if lower NO3 would provide better growth in my tank. Plus I think I might have a high amount of excess ferts.


Toss a water lettuce in the tank, if it grows fast you have an excess amount of ferts somewhere. Got the idea from Vin Kutty.


Also swapping to higher concentrated doses due to this post
burr740;11128473 said:
[MENTION=16861]Greggz[/MENTION] it is possible your mac varie has too much built up within the plant. It would probably benefit from a week or two of zero. Other stuff probably would not appreciate it though. And if it's slowly bouncing back well, just keep doing what you're doing.

In my tanks during about a month when B and Zn were both in the .07s and dosing daily, several things began to melt at the stems down low; mac varie, myrio mini, didiplis and gratiola. So one or both of those caused problems at daily .07

At 4-5x per week havent noticed anything negative, but I still think it's too much.

I've been trying something new for the past 3 weeks- dosing higher concentrations only 3x per week

Fe - .3
Mn - .075
B - .06
Zn - .06
Mo - .002
Cu - .003
Ni - .0005

This is close to the old v13.15 that several of us were dosing daily at one point.

And I gotta say things are doing as well as ever.

Im trying 3x per week for two reasons, the convenience of going back to micros and macros on alternating days, and also because I have a theory about concentration and absorption.

As we know some of these non-chelated micros dont stick around very long. And we also know that concentration affects absorption. Higher concentrations make it easier to absorb smaller amounts. That's general biology, not just plants

So having .06 Zn for example, makes it easier for all plants to 'get enough' before it goes away in say a few hours (guessing on the time which is heavily related to PH)

Some things may not have access to enough at only .03 daily. .03 wont be absorbed as easily as .06, and it wont be around as long either

Also Fe and most micros dont have to be in a steady concentration all the time, like how its better to have NO3 and PO4 steady. Plants can drink up Fe one day and be OK for a while as long as they have plenty. So that's another reason

Its just a theory. After a while I may try this exact recipe cut in half and dosed daily to see if there's any difference. All I can say right now is a higher concentration 3x is working well.


And you're absolutely right small tweaks can make a big big difference. Who woulda thunk it?? :red_mouth

I didn't scale down the micros because my water is stupid high in Calcium 70 to 80 ppm and that can affect nutrient update pretty harshly. I'll have to watch for Phosphorus, Manganese, or Born deficiencies in my case since my tank is above 6.8+ pH for at least 13hrs of the day.
NutrientPHRange.jpg


I also wanted to test out Marian Sterian's fert routine but scaled up (he has soft water), his being 10 ppm NO3, 2 ppm P, 15 ppm K, and 1 ppm Fe weekly.

Tank before switching routines:








I'm expecting the Ludwigia Glandulose/Perunesis to complain a lot and the Mermaid Weed to shrink/switch back to spiney looking leaves. I'm hoping they don't but we'll see.

If things don't work out I'll swap to 20, 4, 30 for macros and keep Fe at 1.5
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
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Found out what was causing my GDA and BGA Blooms (everything got hit), 0.25 ppm ammonia showed up on my test. Probably from overfeeding unless the tank went through a mini cycle a couple of weeks ago because of the rescape.



Got some Staurogyne spatulata, Limnophila chinesis, Hyptis lorentziana, and Red Cabomba from Joe


Temporary spots. As soon as I grow enough Red Cambomba I'm ripping out some of the L. Repends behind it.
AR Mini seems to be recovering well after being un-shaded, Ludwigia sp Red, and Hygrophila Serpyllum too.



Replanted some Anubias Nana Petite. Not sure if I wanna keep the Ludwigia under that center branch with the Anubias. My barbs don,t seem to realize that they can swim through it.


Perunesis/Glandulosa still growing like a monster. Think they're be leaning towards the glass because of the light form windows




FTS
 
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AgMa

Junior Poster
May 30, 2016
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How does the switching routine goes?
Did you see any deficiencies/complaints?
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
145
155
43
SoCal
How does the switching routine goes?
Did you see any deficiencies/complaints?

Just the Perunesis twisting a lil bit, seems to be better this week though. Pretty sure it was micro related though and not macro.

==========

Weekly Friday update

Morning/pre maintenace shot


Moving the Perunesis/Glandulosa


Buce seems to be doing fine at 300+ PAR, it's throwing out new leaves


Moving the Red Cambomba over to Perunesis' old spot. tentative final height will be 7-8."
Trimmed the Mermaid Weed to dense up the group a bit, final height I want to keep it at will probably be about 8-9."



Cleaned up the AR Mini


Had to move the Staurogyene Big leaf here, it's old spot had too much flow


Most of the bottom leaves of the Limnophila Chinensis melted, dunno if it hates hard water.
Leaving the Hyptis Lorenzeta here for now.


FTS


If the AR Mini doesn't stay at it's current size and grows bigger I'll swap out the Red Cambomba and move it to that spot.


Potential layout:
Left side
/Limnophila Hippuroides
\Mermaid Weed
\AR Mini or some other type of AR

Right side
\Ludwigia Perunesis/Glandulosa
/Hyptis Lorenzeta?
/Red Cambomba

As for ferts, no real change. Just swapping back to 6x 0.25 ppm Fe from the current 3x 0.5 ppm Fe.
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
145
155
43
SoCal
Still trimming Ludwigia Repens every week


Still have some Cyano problems in a few places. I'm thinking it might be a flow related thing, something about having enough flow to blow away organics from a plants boundary layers (got the idea from BRS's video about flow).


Some snails have been munching on the Hyptis


Still waiting for some explosive growth from these guys. Guess they might still be adjusting to my water unless 165+PAR is gonna force em to carpet instead of grow upwards.


Probably gonna trim the Limnophila Hippuroides in 2 more weeks. Some of the stems have grown some side shoots. Only problem is idk where to plant the future trimmings. I do know I want to dense up that Hippuroides bush.


Hygrophila Serphyllum creeping along


Alternanthera Reineckii Mini still flat and hella red



Perunesis still doing good, newer leaves arent as twisting


Remember this Anubias golden from 5ever ago? this is the same one that got hit with Anubias rot about a year ago, this only about a 3rd of what I have stashed in my plant pond. Rotted down to a tiny 1" rhizome and now its chugging along just fine.


Was deciding whether to use the Anubias Golden or Windelov Java fern.
Ultimately I went with the Windelov for 2 reasons; 1: I wanted a plant that can trap detritus from flowing into the Staurogyene Repens and 2: Golden's leaf shape and color is way too similar to the repens.
Gonna see if it'll darken up in a few weeks.


FTS
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
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SoCal
haven't updated in like a month lol

pre trim although the ludwigia repens did grow it also got loose and started floating up like a mat, think my barbs knocked some of it loose. some of the stems did't had roots reaching down to the sand so I guess it was floating up bit by bit for awhile:

not gonna lie, I was pretty mad when I realize a couple of weeks of shaping the mound started floating up


got fed up with trying to put it back in place so I decided to pull it out and start over, probably a huge ass mistake on my part.



gonna try getting the same mound again but with mesh this time


post screw up


I still have about a 4 gallon bucket and a half of this stuff to sort and go through to see what I can fix / recover


At least the buce is doing good


Somehow got some Lobelia mini mixed in with Hygrophila Serpyllum



Waiting a couple of more weeks before trimming the Hyptis


I know I said I was gonna swap the sword and 53b this week but I think I might think about it some more due to how big the sword leaves can get. The leaf is 2" wide at the widest point and 12" from crown to tip so far and from past experiences it can get taller.


1.05 ppm Fe uptake this week, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if my weekly uptake is between 1 and 1.1


Tempted to try to do a Hygrophila Pinatifida wall or at least on the left behind the Limnophila Hippuroides and the sword. I would need some reliable black suction cups (if you guys have an evilbay item # let me know)


tap pH is 8.1 this time of year for me.



I haven't been dosing MgSO4 so you guys can ignore that part lol. Tap Mg is around 16 ppm, and Ca still around 80
 

SingAlongWithTsing

Junior Poster
Feb 17, 2016
145
155
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SoCal
Not much to update during the past 2 weeks, just been trying to pin down some micro nutrient problems.










I suspect it might be a Molybdenum deficiency; twisted leaves in Perunesis/Glandulosa, leaf tip curl on Hygrophila Siamensis (not pictured), cupping on the Swords. As for the holes in the leaves in of the plants, I think it might be K related or something inhibiting it.

PLANTS GROWN ONAMMONIUM NITROGEN MAYNOT BECOME CHLOROTIC, but develop severely twisted young leaves, which eventually die. Other characteristic molybdenum deficiency symptoms include marginal scorching and rolling or cupping of leaves. With molybdenum deficiency, nitrogen deficiency symptoms may develop in the presence of adequate levels of nitrate nitrogen in the root environment and high levels of nitrate nitrogen in the plant. Nitrate nitrogen must be reduced in the plant before it can be utilized. Molybdenum is required for this reduction, and if molybdenum is deficient, nitrate may accumulate to a high level in the plant, and at the same time the plant may exhibit nitrogen deficiency symptoms. Molybdenum differs from other trace nutrients in that many plants can develop in its absence provided that ammonium nitrogen is present. Molybdenum appears to be essential for the nitrate-reducing enzyme to function.

NECROSIS OCCURS AT TIP AND MARGIN OF LEAVES CAUSING A DEFINITE HOOK AT LEAF TIP. Calcium is essential for the growth of shoot and root tips (meristems). Growing point dies. Margins of young leaves are scalloped and abnormally green and, due to inhibition of cell wall formation, the leaf tips may be "gelatinous" and stuck together inhibiting leaf unfolding. Stem structure is weak and peduncle collapse or shoot topple may occur. Roots are stunted. Premature shedding of fruit and buds is common. Downward curl of leaf tips (hooking) occurs near terminal bud. AMMONIUM or MAGNESIUM EXCESS may induce a calcium deficiency in plants.... CALCIUM DEFICIENCY

The Ammonium "excess" problem could be due to the individual osmocote balls which I've manually attached to the roots of some stems. I guess I could always cram more bio media into the sump to see if it also helps with the ammonium.

or maybe I'm completely wrong and it can be excess Boron. @rajkm maybe you can provide some insight here since you messed with boron more than me lol
b. Tips and edges of leaves exhibit necrotic spots coalescing into a MARGINAL SCORCH. Symptom from the plant's base upwards with older leaves being affected first. In advanced, severe toxicity, necrotic spots with a pale brown center also appear in the inner parts of the leaf blade... BORON EXCESS

dosing regime hasn't changed yet though, not sure how much I wanna boost Mo by yet


Fe uptake



Random Ludwigia repens leaf


Cabomba after trimming and planting


Limnophila Hippuroides


Hippuroides from yesterday's maintenance


One of the twist Glandulosa/Perunesis


Hygrophila Siamensis 53 B


Panthorum Seidiodes


Inconsistent leaf shape on Mermaid weed. I had both forms (spiney and the "fuller" versions) in one scape at one point lol.





FTS


the more I look at this scape the more I wonder if I have too much red