Going Dutch with Aquasoil

Pikez

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You could always buy Gerry's tank also, that would help, hehe
36" wide.

36 inches..............
ATI's, Vortech and plenty of Manzy
Killer stand and light bar. Nice high end CO2.

I seriously thought about Gerry's tank. That is almost exactly what I want to upgrade to. But the 20" height of the tank is a deal-breaker for me. I really want 24-28" for Dutch styles. As it is, I'm trimming the Pantanal and Limno Giant once a week. I added the Cabomba temporarily, but it's now become semi-permanent and it is weedier than the damn Pantanal. So I have at least 3 plants that shoot to 2-foot height in no time. Even if I selected slower-growing plants, most would need to reach 24" to look right. But the 36" front to back is sweeter than sweet for Dutch expression!

I know it is heresy to say this, but, gorgeous as it is, I don't want all that manzanita. Dutch tanks don't need it and my big cichlid tanks already have them.
 
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Tom Barr

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I seriously thought about Gerry's tank. That is almost exactly what I want to upgrade to. But the 20" height of the tank is a deal-breaker for me. I really want 24-28" for Dutch styles. As it is, I'm trimming the Pantanal and Limno Giant once a week. I added the Cabomba temporarily, but it's now become semi-permanent and it is weedier than the damn Pantanal. So I have at least 3 plants that shoot to 2-foot height in no time. Even if I selected slower-growing plants, most would need to reach 24" to look right. But the 36" front to back is sweeter than sweet for Dutch expression!

I know it is heresy to say this, but, gorgeous as it is, I don't want all that manzanita. Dutch tanks don't need it and my big cichlid tanks already have them.


Oh hell, no one interested in many species wants all that hard scape.

I tried, it's a royal PITA.
 

yme

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low light? Also, circulation is minimal... And I see they are using sand. Anyone has idea how they fertilize

low light, low circulation and low fertilization.

greets,

yme
 
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geektom

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So... Why in the heck we don't do it like those guys?!

I was thinking the same thing- you know most of the Dutch masters have been doing it well before the age of injected CO2, AquaSoil, and LED lighting. Has to be some solid practices in there that have not been outdated.


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Pikez

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Outstanding. It is the video or it looks like they are using pretty low light? Also, circulation is minimal... And I see they are using sand. Anyone has idea how they fertilize?

Light is fairly low. It is not as intense as some of our high tech tanks.

Same for circulation. But some of the pumps may also have been turned off for videography.

Bart uses fertilizer capsules and red clay balls that he shoves into the inert substrate.

Most of the masters still use inert substrate that's jacked up with other stuff. Used to be, they'd add an inch layer of clay and peat at the bottom, topped with a couple of inches of clean gravel. I did this back in the early 90s with moderate success.
 
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Pikez

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So... Why in the heck we don't do it like those guys?!

He-heh! Good question.

Short answer: we're special.

But long answer is that information osmosis goes both ways. We have a lot to learn from them. And they have taken on some aspects of modern high-tech tanks as well.

Virtually all of them use CO2. But not at nosebleed levels like we do.
Virtually al of them add macros and micros to the water. But not at the nosebleed level like we do.
Many are starting to use LEDs. But keep it at lower intensities.

So they ARE using LEDs, water column dosing, and CO2 reactors.

But they are resistant to active soils like Aquasoil. Possibly because they uproot and move plants around a lot. And because root feeding with capsules works well. Could also be a cost thing - I've heard that copper wire was discovered by two Dutchmen fighting over a penny. (If no one was offended by that, I've failed).

We (Americans) like MORE. We like MORE light and that means we have to have MORE CO2. Otherwise it's often algae city. So with more light comes more CO2. I've been operating my Dutch tank at 25% intensity and that gives me 60-80 PAR at substrate. NONE of the plants have lost color. But things are more stable and easier to fix. When I have a power outage, the Solunar controller auto-resets the BMLs to 100% intensity and then it feels like I'm staring into a car's headlights and the pearling looks like 180 gallons of champagne.

Overall, lowering light is more beneficial than lowering CO2. Not much to be gained by lowering CO2. But you get a lot of stability from less light.

And if you have less light, it is not as critical to have 90 mph circulation either.

The video was done by George Farmer, who once said 'You'd be shocked what you can grow at 10 PAR.' So, I doubt he felt the tanks were dim.
 

nicpapa

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He-heh! Good question.

Short answer: we're special.

But long answer is that information osmosis goes both ways. We have a lot to learn from them. And they have taken on some aspects of modern high-tech tanks as well.

Virtually all of them use CO2. But not at nosebleed levels like we do.
Virtually al of them add macros and micros to the water. But not at the nosebleed level like we do.
Many are starting to use LEDs. But keep it at lower intensities.

So they ARE using LEDs, water column dosing, and CO2 reactors.

But they are resistant to active soils like Aquasoil. Possibly because they uproot and move plants around a lot. And because root feeding with capsules works well. Could also be a cost thing - I've heard that copper wire was discovered by two Dutchmen fighting over a penny. (If no one was offended by that, I've failed).

We (Americans) like MORE. We like MORE light and that means we have to have MORE CO2. Otherwise it's often algae city. So with more light comes more CO2. I've been operating my Dutch tank at 25% intensity and that gives me 60-80 PAR at substrate. NONE of the plants have lost color. But things are more stable and easier to fix. When I have a power outage, the Solunar controller auto-resets the BMLs to 100% intensity and then it feels like I'm staring into a car's headlights and the pearling looks like 180 gallons of champagne.

Overall, lowering light is more beneficial than lowering CO2. Not much to be gained by lowering CO2. But you get a lot of stability from less light.

And if you have less light, it is not as critical to have 90 mph circulation either.

The video was done by George Farmer, who once said 'You'd be shocked what you can grow at 10 PAR.' So, I doubt he felt the tanks were dim.

Hi Pikez , did yoy ever try not to uproot plants, but just trimmed at the base , and replant in the same posisiton?
I think its beter.
Try it.
Just leave the old roots maybe some grow again , or they despise its food for the new plants. :)
Wiht this way we do not bother the substrate... and make a mess in the tank .
For circulation, we overdoing it... it not need that much,,,
 

Pikez

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Hi Pikez , did yoy ever try not to uproot plants, but just trimmed at the base , and replant in the same posisiton?
I think its beter.
Try it.
Just leave the old roots maybe some grow again , or they despise its food for the new plants. :)
Wiht this way we do not bother the substrate... and make a mess in the tank .
For circulation, we overdoing it... it not need that much,,,

Yes, I've done this with some of my fast growers like Pantanal, Cabomba, and Limno gigantea.

It takes less time, does not bother the substrate and is easier.

But there are two major issues:
  1. It works, but looks better from an aquascaping perspective when you pull the whole stem out and replant the top.
  2. If you trim at the base and replant the top, the base will sprout new leaves and in a week or two. Soon, I'll have twice as many plants! This is not a good thing when you are trying to control biomass.
 
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Tom Barr

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low light, low circulation and low fertilization.

greets,

yme


Oh these clowns in the USA love that highest possible light.

But............the garage tanks do extremely well with less, bit the light is still pretty high.
Bart doses after the water change or if he trims. About what I do as well, so it's about 2x a week.